{"contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

For Now, It's Obama's Show

By the time you read this, Senator Obama will already be in the Middle East, to fulfill the requirement of making the trip. He has been roundly castigated for having articulated a specific timetable for troop withdrawal from Iraq, but oddly the greater criticism has been less that his military strategy is wrong-headed than that he had formulated his plan without having been there in several years. It is useful to separate the two issues.

There are few ways to become familiar with the intricacies of complex national security problems, and they all include detailed study and longstanding immersion, not superficial exposure. In this regard, it is interesting to note that accompanying Obama on this trip is Senator Jack Reed (D-RI), an Army veteran who has made more than ten trips to the region and is as conversant with the issues as anyone in the Congress, and Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE), also a veteran who has visited Iraq multiple times. Observers who think outside the confines of standard politics and have an interesting sense of humor like to speculate about a bi-partisan ticket, with Hagel as Obama's running mate. It's possible, of course, but unlikely, although Hegel as a cabinet member does make quite a bit of sense.

Obama may meet with a number of dignitaries, including King Abdullah of Jordan, and one can predict with some confidence that he will also visit with al-Maliki in Baghdad and Karzai in Kabul. Experience says that these are unlikely to be meetings of any substance, but they may be first-rate reporting opportunities. As when Senator McCain visited the region, there are liable to be videos of Senator Obama suitably outfitted in a flak vest or conversing with General Petraeus and young soldiers. He will meet with American military officials in Iraq and Afghanistan at their state-of-the-art headquarters, and he and his staff will receive the most stunning briefings American technological capability can provide. Because both Obama and his entourage are already aware of the information these briefings contain, the sessions will be unenlightening.

Obama has long asserted that he will withdraw American forces from Iraq on a regular and published schedule, and just as Obama arrived in the Middle East, President Bush agreed with the notion that an open-ended troop commitment in Iraq is politically untenable. The administration's justification for embracing the withdrawal is that General Petraeus's counterinsurgency strategy has been remarkably successful, that American casualties are down, that the Iraqi army is improving dramatically. All these things are true, of course, and the Iraqi forces are even making an effort to disarm some of the militias, something that we should have done five years ago.

But the public articulation of strategic plans in advance is rarely advisable, the result of political calculation rather than military necessity. Indeed, while the military operates almost exclusively on the basis of phased operations with distinct time horizons, publicizing them is a dangerous violation of the principles of war. Still, even if it makes little military sense, if the government of Iraq and the American public want a publicized withdrawal, who's to argue?

The most interesting subject is where all this leaves Senator McCain. Long an advocate of persistence in Iraq, he seems curiously out-of-synch with the veneer of Obama's bipartisanship and President Bush's new agreement with the chorus of withdrawal advocates, and it won't help McCain's campaign if it is perceived that he is less attuned to the realities of world politics than even George W. Bush.

{"contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
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{"commentId":2230193,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

Col Jack:

Good call with one minor quibble:

Experience says that these are unlikely to be meetings of any substance, but they may be first-rate reporting opportunities.

Karzai, Maliki and Abbas, among the state leaders, will be sizing Obama up as a probable Commander-in-Chief, as Obama sizes them up.

And, ummmmm ... well, this is a little awkward considering your career, but .... the Colonels in Iraq and Afghanistan will be sizing up their probable new superior.

Those are matters of great substance. However, the rest of the trip probably is all theatrics.

{"commentId":2230193,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:21 AM EDT
{"commentId":2231958,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

Well, good point about the officers' sizing up Obama. But most of them won't have an impact. The people who really need to work out a modus vivendi are those at the highest levels: the four-star generals. Only they have the capability to tell the boss that his plans do or don't make any sense.

{"commentId":2231958,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:24 PM EDT
{"commentId":2232061,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}

Col. Jacobs I think there's a fair amount of static in the air on the whole "timetable" business. Bush's longstanding position going back years can be summed up: "as they stand up, we'll stand down." This is also the "timetable" (if one wishes to call it that) on which Nouri al-Maliki has been operating although he's also keeping an eye, at least where public appearances are concerned, on the coming provinicial elections knowing that he can perhaps weaken the Sadrist group by proposing a type of "time horizon" as reported today by the Washington Post.

Obama, on the other hand, as recently as April when questioning Gen. Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker was still talking about a defined timetable for withdrawal of so many combat brigades a month. Now he has "refined" his position to suggest that he too is essentially adopting the Bush/Maliki/Petraeus position. The only substantial thing that has changed between April and July is that now Obama's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee and he's trying to move to the center for the general election in this regard.

Last, I'm not sure how this leaves McCain as the odd man out since with his recent comments Obama is essentially "triangulating" (to use Dick Morris's word for it) off of the aforementioned Bush/Maliki/Petraeus position.

{"commentId":2232061,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:46 PM EDT
{"commentId":2232172,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

Col. Jack:

True about the generals, but I exaggerated a little for rhetorical effect because you are, after all, a Colonel yourself. You aren't going to say that Colonels are completely irrelevant, are you?

:^{)>

However, some subset or other of Colonels Obama meets this week probably will be generals in the next few years if Obama wins the election

{"commentId":2232172,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:06 PM EDT
{"commentId":2232213,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

Bill:

Please. You're clinging, ill-befitting a gentleman of your stature.

Maliki just all-but-endorsed Obama's strategy. It's not "static." I'm sincerely baffled that you could read this:

"U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes."

as anything but GOOD for Obama and BAD for McCain and, almost incidently, a repudiation of Bush's position.

{"commentId":2232213,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:12 PM EDT
{"commentId":2232372,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}

Please don't try and use a Reuters wire report of an interview with a German magazine to impress me or anyone else with half a wit in their brain. Hell, even the New York Times, once you get past the deceptive headline reports:

Friday's statements noted the gradual handover of security to Iraqi forces, now complete in 10 of Iraq's 18 provinces, though not in the most volatile ones, where American and Iraqi troops continue to wage war with insurgents. The statements suggested that the final agreement could link the complete transition of control in the remaining provinces to the withdrawal of American forces — a timetable, though, without specific dates.

Now I don't see anything on the proximate horizon that could change this although if the Israelis hit Iran (a threat which I discount for the time being) that could change the whole shootin' match overnight.

{"commentId":2232372,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 1 vote
#1.5 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:43 PM EDT
{"commentId":2232536,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

Bill:

What part of:

. . . Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe . . .

Do you not understand?

The political damage to McCain is already done. Possibly lethal damage, too. Between the notion of indefinite presence pressed by Bush and now McCain and the notion of a definite withdrawal pressed by Pelosi, Obama and now Maliki, McCain's policy has been repudiated by the Iraqi government.

No amount of half-assed spinnery by Dana Perino or McCain's advisors is going to change that. No backtracking by Maliki under White House pressure is going to be believable, nor prevent Obama from citing it on the trail.

What Maliki just did, if you haven't figured it out yet, is to make it okay even for Iraq Hawks to be Dirty @!$%#ing Hippies™ if they choose. And so many will.

Atrios

{"commentId":2232536,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:13 PM EDT
{"commentId":2232551,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}

Now you've gone from Reuters quoting a German magazine allegedly quoting Maliki to a foul-mouthed nutsrooter. You're just piling up credibility.

{"commentId":2232551,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:17 PM EDT
{"commentId":2232660,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

Bill:

Jesus, Bill, not even the McCain campaign, let alone the White House, is disputing the quote. Maliki said what he said.

Here's the official translation.

{"commentId":2232660,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 1 vote
#1.8 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:38 PM EDT
{"commentId":2232975,"authorDomain":"talkingfairness"}

jfxgillis, not to defend Bill, but the words of al-Maliki are not very significant. He agrees with Obama's timeline because publicly he wants them out as fast as possible and Obama's timeline is the fastest out there in the news.

It's very typical for the leader of a nation to say that his nation is strong and doesn't require foreign powers to assist in keeping his nation safe.

An Iraqi general according to the new York Times thinks about three years would be best.

And no one knows what al-Maliki is privately saying. And that is what actually matters.

Statements are not said in a vacuum. There are reasons to say untrue things.

{"commentId":2232975,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"talkingfairness"}
  • 2 votes
#1.9 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:42 PM EDT
{"commentId":2233106,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

Nathan:

And that is what actually matters.

Au contraire, not in the American Presidential election it doesn't.

On the face of it, everyone is on the same page on Iraq except Bush, McCain and a few generals. By everyone I mean: Obama, Maliki, The Iraqi parliament, the American Congress, the American electorate and the Iraqi citizenry. It might be different in private, but Presidential elections are exercises in public policy.

Thus, McCain has two choices in response: Discount Iraqi sovereignty and reject American public opinion, or, move toward Obama's position.

{"commentId":2233106,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 1 vote
#1.10 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:07 PM EDT
{"commentId":2233232,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}

Jack, how fast is the earth spinning beneath your feet in Beantown tonight? I'm getting dizzy from the effect here in Arlington.

{"commentId":2233232,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 1 vote
#1.11 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:31 PM EDT
{"commentId":2233319,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

Bill:

You getting any insider e-mails or anything?

Marc Ambinder at the Atlantic got a two-word e-mail from GOP strategist. First word is "We're" and the second one I can't say in polite company.

Not that this is polite company or anything.

{"commentId":2233319,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 1 vote
#1.12 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:44 PM EDT
{"commentId":2233505,"authorDomain":"talkingfairness"}
American Presidential election it doesn't. McCain has two choices in response: Discount Iraqi sovereignty

What does the election have to do with Iraqi sovereignty?

I did not mention the election. I was in no way meaning to talk about the election. Simply because the election has to do with the Iraq War does not mean the Iraq War has anything to do with the election.

This is a war with people's lives at stake; a commander-in-chief shouldn't take into account public opinion, they are not experts on military affairs.

If al-Maliki is actually in agreement with his generals when the Iraqi public isn't listening, then no nation's sovereignty is getting ignored, regardless of what he says publicly.

And on another note, Obama's broad Iraq policy is to end the war, without regard for victory. McCain, regardless of advocating a timeframe for troop drawdowns, will never take on such a strategy.

{"commentId":2233505,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"talkingfairness"}
  • 2 votes
#1.13 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:14 PM EDT
{"commentId":2233602,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}

Nathan, Jack is obviously auditioning for the role of Obama Pentagon spokesman should His Barackness walk across the Potomac come November.

{"commentId":2233602,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 1 vote
#1.14 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:30 PM EDT
{"commentId":2233638,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

Nathan:

What does the election have to do with Iraqi sovereignty?

Duh. If McCain wants to run for President of the United States on a platform of conquest and imperialism (which, come to think of, worked for TR), he's welcome to try. I'm betting the public would reject that.

This is a war with people's lives at stake; a commander-in-chief shouldn't take into account public opinion, they are not experts on military affairs.

We live in a democratic republic, not under martial law. Ultimately, it IS INDEED about "public opinion." When the voters decide that the benefits of driving around with a "These Colors Don't Run" bumper sticker are outweighed by the costs of having a child or spouse return from Iraq with their legs blown off, they will express their "public opinion" by voting to end this war. And there'll be nothing you or Petraeus or anyone else can do about it.

Well, you could renounce your US citizenship, go to Iraq, take Iraqi citizenship, then join their army and go kill bad guys if you want. Your choice.

{"commentId":2233638,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 2 votes
#1.15 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:36 PM EDT
{"commentId":2233655,"authorDomain":"TeddRi"}
which, come to think of, worked for TR

Thanks for remembering me Jack ! ☺

{"commentId":2233655,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"TeddRi"}
  • 3 votes
#1.16 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:39 PM EDT
{"commentId":2277676,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}

Jack - 1.15---Bush and McCain have said publicly our troops will come home ---as Iraqi forces stand up----they just have not published a timeline. That's the only difference between them and Obama's 16 months. And I expect to see more reductions before November.

{"commentId":2277676,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
  • 1 vote
#1.17 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:29 AM EDT
{"commentId":2277816,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

lisa:

Oooops. Too late. Charles Krauthammer just pushed the conquest and imperialism platform for McCain in this morning's WaPo.

{"commentId":2277816,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 2 votes
#1.18 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:40 AM EDT
{"commentId":2277969,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}

Jack---does having a permanent base in Iraq equate with "conquest and imperialism" in your view? Does Japan feel that way about us? Does South Korea? I think it makes great sense from a security perspective for the U.S. and the region. Maliki is playing politics---both there in Iraq and here.

{"commentId":2277969,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
  • 2 votes
#1.19 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:55 AM EDT
{"commentId":2278476,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

lisa:

Actually, it's not really my view on that that matters--it's the Iraqi people's and their government's view that matters. If they see it as imperialistic, they will resist. This isn't open to much argument--the phenomena has been documented throughout recorded human history.

Machiavelli, citing both contemporary and ancient examples, makes much the same point a time or two.

As Sir George Goldie, colonial governor of Nigeria in the 19th century, put it (in a fit of frustration not unlike that expressed by Krauthammer), ""They would rather be misgoverned by their own people than be governed by the very best of our officials."

Let me put it like this. An unnamed continental nation-state A, fairly rated as a Great Power, invades ordinary nation-state B, deposes it's autocratic government, occupies B's capital for some years, then suggests that A requires a permanent garrison in B.

Pardon my french, but what the @!$%# would you think if you were a citizen of B?

{"commentId":2278476,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 2 votes
#1.20 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:42 PM EDT
{"commentId":2279419,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}

Jack - Iraq has to decide just who is it in their best interests as a sovereign state to partner with---Iran? or the United States of America? Seems as if they've chosen Iran. That doesn't seem to be the best choice vis a vis sovereignty. Bet hey-it's their country right? And as for your citizen of B---why does Japan and North Korea have no problem with our bases?

{"commentId":2279419,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
  • 1 vote
#1.21 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:11 PM EDT
{"commentId":2279727,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

lisa:

That doesn't seem to be the best choice vis a vis sovereignty.

Possibly not, but ...

But hey-it's their country right?

I'm glad that's starting to dawn on you.

South Korea made the opposite judgment because they fear their neighbor more than us.

{"commentId":2279727,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 2 votes
#1.22 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:42 PM EDT
{"commentId":2280347,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}

Jack --but the point I'm trying to make re a possible U.S. base in Iraq is this---shouldn't Iraq fear Iran more than us when it comes to their own soverignty? Similar to the way South Korea views us?

{"commentId":2280347,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
  • 2 votes
#1.23 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:38 PM EDT
{"commentId":2280719,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

lisa:

Well, heck, if I were an Iraqi secular liberal, I'd prefer the USA to Iran (in part because like these guys I prefer "chicks in bikinis" to the alternative).

But I'm not.

Nations general settle on this judgments based on a complicated set of competing values that are nevertheless simply to express. Sir George's rule is one. Ethnic and religious commonalities (or antipathies even). Geography. To repeat--it's not my country.

You can't make someone love you, right?

{"commentId":2280719,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 1 vote
#1.24 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:11 PM EDT
{"commentId":2280781,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}
You can't make someone love you, right?

Jack--nope. Too bad for the Iraqis ultimately in making what will be a disastrous marriage choice--and then who will they run back to when they get their "hearts" broken? Anyhoo---are you watching Generation Kill? Any good? I haven't seen it yet.

{"commentId":2280781,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
  • 2 votes
#1.25 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:17 PM EDT
{"commentId":2281152,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

lisa:

Yeah. GK "gets some."

:^{)>

It's very worth watching. Thing is, unlike Newsvine, it doesn't have a profanity filter.

{"commentId":2281152,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 1 vote
#1.26 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:53 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":2230296,"authorDomain":"TeddRi"}

Col Jack,

Interesting to see how this goes as this should be a very interesting trip as it seems that the Colonels in Iraq appear to like Obama quite alot from what I have heard on the news and I am sure that this will be covered very closely. I am glad that you started off this thread instead of one of the MSNBC articles as you have your years of experience behind you.

Good article and agree with what you said, should be interesting to see the comments !

{"commentId":2230296,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"TeddRi"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:39 AM EDT
{"commentId":2231372,"authorDomain":"farmer"}

Col. Jack Jacobs. Good stuff. Glad to see someone write something that makes sense and allows for all the contingencies. I don't think Obama really needed the trip but his constituency does. You are right, there are more ways than one to learn what has, is and should be going on. On top of that, I think Petraeus may just be a much greater General than most we have known. General's aren't meant to make policy or set up objectives. They are given a mission and they try to fulfill it. Give Petraeus the word that his mission is to bring the troops home, or divert them to the real battle, and he will do so with honors.

Some of the greatest strategic leaders throughout history were those who knew when to back off and conserve one's reserves. Thanks for being here, Major Sam Firman.

{"commentId":2231372,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"farmer"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:48 PM EDT
{"commentId":2231965,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

thanks for the kind words, and that YOU for your service. You and your comrades have the torch now.

{"commentId":2231965,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:25 PM EDT
{"commentId":2233457,"authorDomain":"farmer"}

Col. Jack Jacobs, sorry but had to set the record straight. Any torch being passed was the one I left for you and yours. I was one who would have supported John Kerry's reports to Congress upon his return from VN. I had three tours, helped start the war in 63, conduct it in 68, and help guide it to an end in 72.

{"commentId":2233457,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"farmer"}
  • 1 vote
#3.2 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:06 PM EDT
{"commentId":2233836,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

My, you ARE an old fogey. Thanks for your service!

{"commentId":2233836,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
  • 1 vote
#3.3 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:07 PM EDT
{"commentId":2234346,"authorDomain":"TeddRi"}

oldfogey has aged pretty well however with time :-)

{"commentId":2234346,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"TeddRi"}
  • 4 votes
#3.4 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:20 PM EDT
{"commentId":2236526,"authorDomain":"crankyman"}

Col. and Major,

Thank you for your service.

I do have to add that I might have to change my moniker. I am not as old as the Major, and don't have as much gray as the Col. (I think my gray just falls out).

Great article. Will hope to see the entire situation play out for the good of America, and not some political campaign.

{"commentId":2236526,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"crankyman"}
  • 1 vote
#3.5 - Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:49 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":2231437,"authorDomain":"talkingfairness"}

I enjoyed the article, but one thing worth mentioning, I think, because of the following...

he seems curiously out-of-synch with the veneer of Obama's bipartisanship and President Bush's new agreement with the chorus of withdrawal advocates

Many people tend to forget that McCain's last trip included Democrat, turned Independent for reasons of staying Senator, Joe Liberman, I'm not sure McCain has a lot of ground to make up regarding bipartitionship. And he's been pretty consistent on supporting strategies he thinks will help win, so the question will be, how much the recent move by Bush and al-Maliki plays into that philosophy?

{"commentId":2231437,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"talkingfairness"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#4 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:58 PM EDT
{"commentId":2231988,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

Good point about McCain's ecumenical approach. My observation was based more on the White House's evident drif toward agreeing on some kind of end game in Iraq---plus something I didn't mention, which may be even more indicative of a lack of communication between the White House and McCain's campaign: discussions with Iran. I can't put my finger on it, but when Bush and Obama start sounding similar themes, McCain seems like the odd man out.

{"commentId":2231988,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
  • 2 votes
#4.1 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:30 PM EDT
{"commentId":2277701,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}
but when Bush and Obama start sounding similar themes, McCain seems like the odd man out.

Col Jack Jacobs-4.1--yes, obama is sounding more like George W Bush every day ---and getting away with it. How can that possibly be a good thing for Obama given our President's extreme unpopularity? I just don't get that.

{"commentId":2277701,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
  • 1 vote
#4.2 - Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:30 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":2232236,"authorDomain":"catfish"}

hope i am not messing up but i was just wondering after hearing Mccain and Romney both say Obama should visit Iraq before putting foward a policy on Iraq did either our President or Vice President or even our Secretary of Defense visit Iraq before our invasion?

{"commentId":2232236,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"catfish"}
    Reply#5 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:16 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2232289,"authorDomain":"talkingfairness"}

    I do not think that Obama's policy was criticized together with his lack of visits until he scheduled a visit.

    It was just the shear fact that the day before he left, Obama reaffirmed his position because doing so at the time he did, implies, "I don't need to take a trip to know what I know, but I'm leaving tomorrow."

    McCain doesn't like Obama's stance on the Iraq War and he doesn't like that the Illinois Senator has never spoken to a great American General, but McCain didn't really put the two together until this last week.
    ----------------------------------------

    That said, I think it's overplayed as a "fact-finding" thing.

    But I do like our troops getting shown the appreciation and don't like that Obama hasnever visited our troops in Afghanistan until today

    {"commentId":2232289,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"talkingfairness"}
      #5.1 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:26 PM EDT
      {"commentId":2232383,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}

      d nunnery

      . . .did either our President or Vice President or even our Secretary of Defense visit Iraq before our invasion?

      I sure hope you're joking with this remark because if you're not. . .

      {"commentId":2232383,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      • 1 vote
      #5.2 - Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:46 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":2252974,"authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}

      I think as more people realize how complex this situation has become, the less they will feel inclined to support someone wants to tear across the Middle East looking for the next boogeyman. McCain has made his position known in blunt terms, he wants dead terrorists. I think as we slip further into war weariness, that could at best hold him to one term if he even gets in.

      So the focus is on Obama, who is a military virgin. That could be good thing, as I feel the political puppetry act Generals and high-brass have had to be subjected too (even pre-dating Bush) is counter-productive. On the flip-side he might do a tear-down on the military as in the Clinton era to meet his lofty spending goals, something that also must be discussed. The military needs trimming, not cut backs. Those "$300 toilet seats" and what not.

      So again I think the media is asking the wrong questions just to be provocative. I'm just waiting for them to fall back into the "24" scenarios again.

      "Osama Bin Laden breaks into the White House, holds your wife hostage and demands all the gold in Fort Knox or he'll destroy the earth's core. What do you do??"

      {"commentId":2252974,"threadId":"315866","contentId":"1678841","authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}
        Reply#6 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:28 PM EDT
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