{"contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

Cheap Talk

Shortly after he took office, President Bush visited Vladimir Putin and reported that he found him a trustworthy friend. As if we needed another lesson on the subject, the Russian invasion of the Republic of Georgia has further demonstrated the folly of using gut instinct to formulate national security policy.

The collapse of the Soviet Union was accompanied by a euphoria not seen since the end of the Second World War. In Europe and the United States, the lifting of the Iron Curtain was reckoned to be the first event of a new world order, one in which democracy would flower in profusion and erstwhile adversaries would work in concert to assist the downtrodden and insure world peace. This was the understandable optimism that is characteristic of any idealistic endeavor, and almost all benign human enterprises---including new businesses and marriages---are suffused with such notions.

Idealism and naivete, however, are the natural prey of reality. Except for now having vast new wealth from oil and other natural resources, Russia hasn't changed in a millennium. Whether ruled by the tsars, the communists or the oil oligarchs, Russia has had a closed political environment, and it should have come as no surprise that Medvedev has Putin's old job because Putin selected him to have it.

In the period just before and during the Second World War, the Stalin's government killed more of his own citizens---more than twenty million, by many accounts---than the Axis did. A principal characteristic of the Russian political psyche is paranoia, and our failure to understand that, even after decades of experience, demonstrates conclusively that the principal underpinning of American and European policy is hope rather than experience.

Every American administration has had its foreign policy failures, and the inability or refusal to understand the nature of Russia and its politics has translated directly into a miscalculation that will make national security even more difficult than it already is.

For decades NATO was the principal line of defense against the Soviet bloc, and it is not impossible to see how our recruiting former Russian vassal states into the organization would make a paranoid Russia concerned that we are an expansionist threat. Moving decisively in Afghanistan did not concern Moscow, but cleaning house in Iraq did. And publicly declaring support for a Georgian government that was clearly moving militarily against Russian-affiliated separatists handed Putin an excuse to do what the Kremlin has always done best: beat its neighbors into submission.

Flush with success in Georgia and rich with oil revenue, Russia's response to limp, empty and unenforceable demands from the United States is unlikely to be restraint. There are other secessionist groups in the region that would welcome Russia's assistance, and Putin has a hankering to teach Ukraine a lesson, too. And all the complaints we can heave at him will do little more than convince him that we are all hat and no cattle. The situation reminds one of a remark made by Stalin in May of 1935, when it was suggested that, to mollify the Pope, Stalin should stop repressing Russian Catholics.

"The Pope?" he was reported to have said. "How many divisions has he got?"

{"contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
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{"commentId":2469445,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

"I looked the man in the eye. I was able to get a sense of his soul. I knew that President Putin was a man with whom I could work."

{"commentId":2469445,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
    Reply#1 - Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:08 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2469520,"authorDomain":"koehler1939"}

    There will come a day when the West will learn never to trust a Russian (or Chinese) diplomat. You cannot enter into any kind of a contract with him. The mindset of this type of personality is totally alien to anything we are used to. Formalities, legalities and contracts are merely inconvenient stepping stones to assist in meeting their goals. Once these goals are attained these inconveniences are summarily discarded. Even life itself which we hold sacrosanct, is considered dispensable.

    {"commentId":2469520,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"koehler1939"}
      Reply#2 - Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:17 PM EDT
      {"commentId":2469717,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

      I am surprised that is the message you picked up from this essay. I learned from this reading to not trust President Bush's gut appraisals.

      {"commentId":2469717,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
        #2.1 - Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:46 PM EDT
        {"commentId":2851328,"authorDomain":"crankyman"}

        It still amazes me after all my years of living, that the ones we put in the highest powers in this country, are most often the dumbest SOB's that you can ever find.

        {"commentId":2851328,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"crankyman"}
        • 1 vote
        #2.2 - Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:55 AM EDT
        Reply
        {"commentId":2469613,"authorDomain":"Bones29"}

        You don't trust your enemies! (period)

        {"commentId":2469613,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"Bones29"}
          Reply#3 - Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:31 PM EDT
          {"commentId":2469658,"authorDomain":"Bones29"}

          You do not Trust your enemies! (period) KBG agent.

          {"commentId":2469658,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"Bones29"}
            Reply#4 - Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:38 PM EDT
            {"commentId":2471755,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

            There is plenty of blame to go around, and it can be shared by the complaisant, inept American government and the expansionist Russian bullies. In dealing with the Russians, Reagan was fond of remarking, "Trust...but verify," always excellent advice, even when dealing with people more reliable than the Kremlin. Attributed as an old Russian proverb, it may have actually been coined by the American writer Damon Runyon, who also observed, "The race may not always be to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet."

            {"commentId":2471755,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
            • 3 votes
            Reply#5 - Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:36 AM EDT
            {"commentId":2480993,"authorDomain":"lindacozby"}

            Col Jacobs, nice to see on a thread I always enjoy your commentary on msnbc

            {"commentId":2480993,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"lindacozby"}
              #5.1 - Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:14 PM EDT
              Reply
              {"commentId":2472910,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

              "The collapse of the Soviet Union was accompanied by a euphoria not seen since the end of the Second World War. In Europe and the United States, the lifting of the Iron Curtain was reckoned to be the first event of a new world order, one in which democracy would flower in profusion and erstwhile adversaries would work in concert to assist the downtrodden and insure world peace. This was the understandable optimism that is characteristic of any idealistic endeavor, and almost all benign human enterprises---including new businesses and marriages---are suffused with such notions.

              "Idealism and naivete, however, are the natural prey of reality. . . ."

              This article is pessimistic. We need hopeful voices.

              Tell the fifty percent or so of successful married couples that they need a healthy dose of realism.

              {"commentId":2472910,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
              • 1 vote
              Reply#6 - Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:56 AM EDT
              {"commentId":2475937,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

              I published some realism about the Georgia-Russia Crisis:

              "Is the country of Georgia prophetically significant?",

              http://amberneve.newsvine.com/_news/2008/08/16/1755243-untitled-post?new&mode=edit

              {"commentId":2475937,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
              • 2 votes
              #6.1 - Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:35 PM EDT
              Reply
              {"commentId":2473053,"authorDomain":"tankin"}

              This country has continually suffered from administrations that have demonstrated a poor understanding of the world. Too often we have looked at the world through eyes that bely our own values, developed foreign policy approaches that were consistent with our cultural background and political ideology but failed to see what the other guy's goals, ambitions, insecurities, or whattheir value system was based upon. In every case in which we have had a foreign policy crisis it has been the result of failure to understand the other guy.....focusing on the current area of concern and neglecting to keep an eye on the other events around the world and allowing ourselves to be deluded into a false sense of security. We make assumptions and get burned, then make more assumptions and get burned again. Every time there is a change in administrations it is as if the learning curve has to start all over again. Every change over brings new people looking at the world through eyes clouded with political and cultural ideology. Iraq is one hell of an example...actually the Middle East, South America, Central Aisa, Africa, Europe etc. We keep stepping on it, we keep getting surprised, we keep loosing out until we finally get our feet wet. There are people out there that envy us, hate us, love us, accept us when we accept them or give them aid....But for whatever reason, the key is understanding the other guys out there....sounds like human intelligence, a more professional diplomatic corps not constrained by the political whims of various adminstrations. As of today we are fighting a War on Terror, a War in Iraq, concerns about islamic influence in South America, the move towards leftist governments in South America, dependency on foreign oil, natural gas from the Middle East, Russia, Nigeria and its potential strangle hold on Europe and the United States, political turmoil in nuclear Pakistan. Whether we like it or not, there are a lot of balls on the table. No one solution will work as each has its own problems. We are in no position to confront the Russians militarily and Europe is in no position this late in the year to cut off Russian oil/natural gas supplies that are now supplies in pipelines. Time will give us an advantage if we get smart. But to focus on one enemy will result in another getting stronger.

              {"commentId":2473053,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"tankin"}
              • 1 vote
              Reply#7 - Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:19 PM EDT
              {"commentId":2481079,"authorDomain":"lindacozby"}

              This country went into a one way street to Iraq, I've been commenting for awhile how they had taken their eyes off of everything else. South America has been moving left for awhile now we don't seem to have any policy there. I thought Ms Rice was the russian expert, I guess she hasn't been advising? Who can actually trust the KGB and why are we suprised.

              {"commentId":2481079,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"lindacozby"}
                #7.1 - Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:24 PM EDT
                Reply
                {"commentId":2473177,"authorDomain":"nyohnji"}

                There is a saying that goes"let sleeping dogs lie",in the case of the recent georgian crisies,it was not just a dog but a bear.While Georgia hasa right to exist as a sovreign state,it does not have a monopoly to solve minority problems within its boundaries with a ruthless massive military response on seperatists in southern Ossetia.Minority issues ought be handle with tact not a show of force especially when a government such as that of Georgia claims to abide by democratic principles.Saddam hussein was hanged rtially for having bombed iraqui @!$%#e muslim minorities and so was Slobadan Milosovitch called to account for massacres on ethnic bosnians and other minorites within the former Yuguslavian federation.There is some conspiracy when the world turns a blind eye while minority ethnic Ossetians who feel russian should be massacred by Sakasvilis`army because they prefer to be russians and not georgians. The United States has always found as an excuse to use unilateral action to violate international sovreignty of states on the bases of protecting united states citizens,so why should it be different when it is russians turn to protect its nationals?While president Bush is saying the cold war is over,he is provoking cold war scenarios by making a nuclear protecting shield against whosoever in Poland.Is Poland in any danger of attack from Iran?More than five decades ago,a similar event in was to take palce in Cuba with the roles of the United states and the former Soviet Union reversed,that almost led to another terrible confrontation,now that provcation is being played because they will not let the bear sleep.

                {"commentId":2473177,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"nyohnji"}
                • 1 vote
                Reply#8 - Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:38 PM EDT
                {"commentId":2481821,"authorDomain":"dunloptrading"}

                Austin, I don't get the feeling of patriotic over tones here, when the south in 1861 declared itelf a seperate country we went to war to preserve the union, was that wrong?

                {"commentId":2481821,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"dunloptrading"}
                  #8.1 - Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:02 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":2569022,"authorDomain":"axion104"}

                  When in the hell was the last time that the bear slept? It seems to me that the bear hasn't gotten much more than a few minutes of sleep during the last 90 years or so.

                  Who in the hell would trust an "ex-KGB" man to lead such a large nation?
                  Does anyone not remember what they did to their own people? What they did to dissidents? What they did to the peoples of Poland, East Germany, and all the rest of the countries behind the Curtain?

                  What I see here is a country that is potentially gearing up for more action. Russia has partially privatized their military, and they have spent years developing technology that is definitely better than whatever we have to counter it.

                  Examples: Torpedoes for ships/submarines. They have a torpedo that goes 200 knots underwater. Last time I checked, our torpedoes didn't even break 50(though the British have one that is pretty fast.)

                  We need to get out of this post-Berlin Wall stupor and wake up to the reality that Russia has never stopped being controlled by Communists/KGB.

                  {"commentId":2569022,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"axion104"}
                    #8.2 - Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:41 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    {"commentId":2477984,"authorDomain":"werdnatwo"}

                    Commie-nazi's ..It is how the Russians went in blasting pretty darned indiscriminately into Georgia lashing out at those poker faced people living and working in slummy low hovels. The boot being on the other foot, the Georgian thughee army likely acted in the same way. The Russians botched tactically in the Cinema hostage crisis, gassing all and sundry in an ill planned scheme, devoid of saving much of their own citizenry. The children's school crisis was another well botched, ill planned tactless affair. Their troops are trained in thuggery and are like the Bosnian-Serbs..a bunch of budding poker faced 'Rambo's" on a criminal rampage repelete with plans for Concentration camps, in the case of Slobodan and Ratco & Co. in their very own 'final solution' ideas. Can't expect an "Officer and a Gentleman'' in this sphere, or the British 'tommies' "A Soldier's Code" where the strains of civility in wartime are stressed, to retain that modicum of humanity in the darkest hours, made dark by eastern Bloc mentalities that are are still in the medaeval period like their 'allies' the Iranians whom they bosom up to..because they know all about the lock-step Islamofascist Iranian mentality that matches their own goose stepping and trampling psyches. Do these guys ever laugh healthily ? Know thine enemies. All fluff and no stuff "Dubya" Bush, is out of touch with his own people let alone some paranoid foreigners out to rampage as he plays more golf.

                    {"commentId":2477984,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"werdnatwo"}
                      Reply#9 - Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:10 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":2481626,"authorDomain":"dunloptrading"}

                      I told my family two months ago that Russia was sitting back watching the United States strain it's resources, financially and militarily, I also told them that Russia was tired of hearing that
                      the U.S. is the only super power, like a chess match Russia built up it's wealth while watching us drain ours, and they positioned themselves throughout Europe with there vast energy
                      potential. while Bush was saying he had a friend in Putin, Putin realized he had a sucker in Bush. Check, what I see is a much broader story that's not being told, or possibly seen, I believe this
                      move by Russia is two pronged one is the clear message to it's former Soviet border states, to give them time to pause and rethink the consequences that could follow wih regards to it's
                      alliances with the west. two think about it would we stand for warsaw pact troops in Mexico, and Canada, remember Cuba! only an idiot would think Russia would tolerate this, but reading
                      a map Russia is ominiously positioning itself closer to the Iranian border sending a message that if asked by Iran should Isreal strike to come to it's aid, Russia gets the foothold in the Middle East it has sought for years, seriously threatening U.S. national security.
                      The time to act is now the U.S. Should give the Russians something to think about besides words, stationing troops possibly in Poland, and sending US. superhornets over Georgia accompanied by f 117's f 22's and Stealth bombers as an excercise.
                      Russia understands actions not words. last how can we liberate Kuwait from aggression, and let Georgia go under, what message does that send the world and countries looking to
                      democracy for there country?

                      {"commentId":2481626,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"dunloptrading"}
                        Reply#10 - Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
                        {"commentId":2487601,"authorDomain":"southernpride1962"}

                        youre on the money!!! Is REDDAWN in the future for the USA ? mexicos is testing our borders with there army !russia & mexico could make it happen ! wake up and arm youre self to the teeth any thing is possible! both partys of gov. have betrade us all & have enslaved us all ! trust no government ever!! moooo naaaaaa

                        {"commentId":2487601,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"southernpride1962"}
                          #10.1 - Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:28 AM EDT
                          Reply
                          {"commentId":2488659,"authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}

                          I always found it strange that Americans were taught to believe that somehow communism was the carnivorous brain worm that made Russia act so imperialistic. The ironic point here is that in introducing them to capitalism, they've only been made that much stronger. For instance, Moscow as a city has seen a dramatic revival.

                          Their aggression is more tied to their culture and upbringing that we can properly appreciate. Much of what they do is more brutal than we understand, and their personal losses through out history are beyond our own scope. The intensity and moral ambiguity in which they approach situations doesn't sync with ours, as we've been drifting towards more of a "set it and forget it" mentality. Think of their mafia. They make the American mob look like street bootleggers. How about their special forces training where it wasn't measured in wash-out rates but in mortality rates? And lets not speak of the Soviet hockey program.

                          So that raises the question, what do we do this time? I believe history has taught us that after at least two miserably failed foreign invasions, and several internal upheavals, that Russia does the absolute best job of knocking itself out.

                          {"commentId":2488659,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}
                            Reply#11 - Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:08 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":2494142,"authorDomain":"dunloptrading"}

                            Yes it really looks like Russia is withdrawing, right!!!!! now missle systems are reportedly entering the equation, history bears out that appeasement leads to trouble, I am a believer in the best
                            defense is a great! not good, but a great offense. Russia also has a history of looking stronger than they actually are, and much of that strenth
                            came from the warsaw pact nations which are no longer, the allied countries have the upper hand and need to act united and strongly in the face of the same old Russian tactics.
                            the only problem I see as usual is our so called commander and chief!!!!, it is embarrassing to watch our great country get caught off guard an chasing events after the fact.

                            {"commentId":2494142,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"dunloptrading"}
                              Reply#12 - Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:38 PM EDT
                              {"commentId":2514927,"authorDomain":"snake-d"}

                              They should have let Patton kick the Russians back to pre-WWII lines, then we wouldnt have this problem.

                              {"commentId":2514927,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"snake-d"}
                                Reply#13 - Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:31 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2518686,"authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}

                                Hind sight is 20/20, and even still doing so might not have turned out as well as you might have hoped. That would be trading known issues for the unforeseen. We saw what a fractured, utterly defeated post-WW1 Germany did. Can't imagine what even non-nuclear damage a Russia firing on all cylinders could do.

                                Not saying you're wrong, really. But challenges remain in any scenario.

                                {"commentId":2518686,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}
                                  #13.1 - Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:00 PM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  {"commentId":2851402,"authorDomain":"crankyman"}

                                  From someone who grew up during the cold war, entered the military towards the end of the cold war, and saw the fall of the wall, I can say that I was more secure with Russia before, than now.

                                  {"commentId":2851402,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"crankyman"}
                                    Reply#14 - Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:05 AM EDT
                                    {"commentId":2851412,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
                                    Except for now having vast new wealth from oil and other natural resources, Russia hasn't changed in a millennium.

                                    Acute Slavophobia

                                    It is almost amazing that the people in Western Europe know almost nothing about Eastern Europe - almost nothing, that is, except for tired stereotypes. I see some comments here that are truly offensive and mired in absolutely ridiculous, obvious ignorance.

                                    {"commentId":2851412,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#15 - Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:06 AM EDT
                                    {"commentId":3103089,"authorDomain":"scadous"}

                                    I think that Russia is a very powerfull country then it was back then.
                                    Former KBG Agent.

                                    {"commentId":3103089,"threadId":"332862","contentId":"1751405","authorDomain":"scadous"}
                                      Reply#16 - Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:52 PM EDT
                                      {"commentId":3454434,"authorDomain":"andrewwang111"}
                                      Andrew Yu-Jen WangDeleted
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