{"contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

Another Fine Mess

For the second time in three years, North Korea has tested a nuclear device, to the great consternation and teeth-gashing of just about everybody. This warhead was reported to have been several times larger than the one exploded in 2006 and was about the size of the bombs we used at the end of World War II.

The North Koreans also tested a number of short- to medium-range missiles, and until the president's nomination of Judge Sotomayor to the Supreme Court, North Korea's potential capability to fire missiles with nuclear warheads dominated the news.

First, the good bit: although it is difficult to develop missiles, and more difficult to develop nuclear weapons, marrying the two is very, very hard indeed. But that's the extent of the good news.

North Korea spends the majority of its gross domestic product on its military establishment, and most of the country's building material, fuel and food goes to the army. Pyongyang has about one million men on active duty and vastly more in reserve. If the United States had an active duty military in the same proportion to our population, we would have more than 22 million citizens in uniform. Fighting the North Koreans is not unknown to us, and legally and technically, the Korean War is not yet over. Veterans will tell you that it was no picnic, and friends of mine who were captured assert that they would prefer to be prisoners of the Chinese rather than of the Koreans, who were the personnification of ruthlessness and brutality.

We have many military contingency plans on file, and some of them deal with North Korea, but there is no serious consideration of a military response to anything except an invasion of South Korea by the North. The United States has conventional weapons that can be delivered with precision, to destroy or disable Pyongyang's nuclear sites, but the US government will not conduct a unilateral attack, no matter how surgical, without the concurrence of the major powers, and the odds of that are very long.

Because humans are so self-centered, there was plenty of talk on American television about the timing of the nuclear blast, how it was designed to test President Obama in his early days in office, or to coincide with Memorial Day. If the test was tied to anything, it was the current paralysis of South Korea, in a state of national mourning after the suicide of ex-president Roh.

The UN Security Council is about to meet on the issue of North Korea, and our ambassador to the United Nations, Susan Rice, said that any response to the latest test will have teeth to it. But it is difficult to envision what kind of teeth she's talking about. An embargo or a blockade would require the concurrence of China, and China is a serious part of the problem here. North Korea is a client state, and sanctions with teeth would produce millioins of Korean refugess streaming across the Yalu River into China. Blocking the escape of North Korea's people will produce a large number of civilian casualties, and nobody has the stomach for it.

There is much talk about how much of the decision-making is done by Kim Jong-il, and there is plenty of evidence that the country is controlled by a group of elite people, of whom Kim is only one. But how the country is ruled is of little practical importance. It has ignored pleas, entreaties, admonitions and threats, and it will continue to do so. It desperately needs hard cash and earns it by selling drugs and contraband. We are very concerned that North Korea will sell nuclear material or technology, or both, to terrorists, and if it does that, then it's always possible that Muslim extremists, including those in southwest China, could get their hands on deadly weapons.

That would be very bad news, except to the extent that it would finally get Beijing's attention.

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{"commentId":7288783,"authorDomain":"mightyblogger"}
That would be very bad news, except to the extent that it would finally get Beijing's attention.

Thank you Col. Jacobs for providing perspective.
I would appreciate follow up over time with more detail on China's influence and involvement.

{"commentId":7288783,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"mightyblogger"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Tue May 26, 2009 3:42 PM EDT
{"commentId":7307343,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

Here's just a bit right now. China and Russia have strong economic ties to North Korea, but China in particular is not interested in making life more difficult for North Korea. The United States has floated the idea of freezing cash flows to Pyongyang, but China has privately reacted firmly against the move. China also has a long historical and cultural tradition with Korea, particularly in the north, and the Chinese fought on North Korea's side in the '50s, once American forces approached the Yalu River border area. When China is internally strong, as it seems to be at the moment, it expands its influence, and when it is weak it withdraws. China is certainly concerned about developments in North Korea, and it doesn't want Pyongyang to destabilize the region, but the prospects of millions of refugees and of a humanitarian catastrophe inside North Korea are not relished by China, and so Beijing is a roadblock to decisive action against North Korea.

{"commentId":7307343,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Wed May 27, 2009 11:41 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":7319515,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

Korea is a relic the Cold War. The Cold War is over.

What would be the consequences of abandoning Korea to its own fate by announcing a unilateral withdrawal?

{"commentId":7319515,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Wed May 27, 2009 9:54 PM EDT
{"commentId":7360851,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

The Korean War is surely a relic, but there is only a cease-fire on the Korean peninsula, and the war is actually not yet over. Indeed, some of the DPRK's actions can be explained as stemming from 1950. Unilateral withdrawal is always an option, but none of the other actors in the region, including China, has much interest inour leaving, unbalancing a delicate distribution of influence. In particular, Japan has long feared that we would leave and is rearming to meet that eventuality. I am not a fan of the tripwire theory, long used to advocate our continued presence in Korea: American troops are in the South only to get killed and thus bring us into conflict with North Korea if it invades. But there much good reason to be a part of northeast Asia's power structure and potential solutions to problems, and North Korea's destabilizing activities are reason enough.

{"commentId":7360851,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Sat May 30, 2009 7:58 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":7319576,"authorDomain":"myriver"}
If the United States had an active duty military in the same proportion to our population, we would have more than 22 million citizens in uniform.

At this rate, we can't afford 22 million more uniforms, let alone pay 22 million more soldiers.

{"commentId":7319576,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"myriver"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Wed May 27, 2009 9:58 PM EDT
{"commentId":7320621,"authorDomain":"matthew-babiarz"}

I think thats the point though, to highlight the absurdity that is North Korean policy. My question is this; is it possible that all of this sabre rattling is just a prelude to Kim Jong Il finally announcing his succesor? Im way too young to actually remember, but I believe North Korea engaged in the same type of blustering right before Kim Jong Il was announced as the succesor to his father back in the 80's.

{"commentId":7320621,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"matthew-babiarz"}
  • 3 votes
#3.1 - Wed May 27, 2009 11:12 PM EDT
{"commentId":7320710,"authorDomain":"myriver"}

I sure can't answer that one. From all appearances, he doesn't have sense enough to grandstand for future decisions, but that's only my opinion.

{"commentId":7320710,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"myriver"}
  • 2 votes
#3.2 - Wed May 27, 2009 11:19 PM EDT
{"commentId":7360889,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

It isn't certain that Kim Jong-il is heavily involved in NK government. He---and others of his ruling clique---have been grooming his son for some time. but no matter what happens to Kim or his son, the country will be ruled by a consortium of military leaders. North Korea's bellicosity can be attributed to a number of things, and succession is only one. The leadership wants to begin now to motivate other powers to assist during the coming winter, when food and fuel become scarce, and sabre-rattling has worked in the past. And as long as North Korea's actions are met with consternation alone, Pyongyang will not deviate from its path.

{"commentId":7360889,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
    #3.3 - Sat May 30, 2009 8:04 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":7324186,"authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}

    Neron Kesar suggests abandoning Korea (meaning South Korea) to its fate. Possible consequences:

    (1) No other ally will ever trust USA again.

    (2) With control of South Korea's industrial base and wealth, the little nut job will strive to become a major world power, immediately provoking Japan into crash nuclearization of its defense force and most probably into immediate warfare.

    (3) The warranty on my wife's Hyundai will be no good.

    {"commentId":7324186,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#4 - Thu May 28, 2009 9:03 AM EDT
    {"commentId":7328399,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

    Really, it is a question rather than a conclusion.

    I think we all agree that China is the problem. North Korea in some respects is a puppet of China. North Korea can do nothing major on the global theater without permission explicit or implicit from China.

    Historically, Korea -- like Vietnam -- was a single front in a global struggle over two major competing ideologies: communism and democracy. We call this struggle the Cold War.

    The Cold War is over. Democracy won.

    I think it is useful to conceptualized local conflicts, such as Korea and Vietnam, as operations within the context of a larger effort. In this respect, Vietnam was NOT a failure. A withdrawal from Korea would not be a failure, if we conclude that the overall struggle was successful.

    Admittedly, this approach limits outcomes to the viewpoint of a global strategy. But in fact there are power differences throughout the world and whether we like it or not the world is the domain of the Great Powers.

    I have limited the number of the Great Powers to four: the United States, European Union, United Nations, and Russia. You will note that China as a stand-alone power is not among them, yet China WANTS to be among the Great Powers.

    I am certain some would disagree about the number or makeup of the Great Powers. Why is China not included? China is a nation with an ancient, continuous culture. China has over one billion souls.

    I understand this. But what are China's prospects? After the incursions of global warming, what will China and its people look like in the decades to come? Like a global superpower?

    I suspect that this week's display from North Korea is a predictable posturing for global power by China, more so than by its proxy North Korea. China is mindful that the armed forces of the United States are spread thin. We have entered the period for Spring offensives in Afghanistan. President Obama has ordered a troop build-up in support of the offensives. Redeploying troops to Afghanistan will further stress force numbers elsewhere. If a conflict were to break out in the Korean Peninsula, are we prepared to fight three concurrent wars?

    What would be the consequences of disengagement?

    1. China would be deprived of the proxy value of North Korea for the purpose of global posturing.

    2. China would confront the unpleasant realities of a destabilized Korea.

    3. North and South Korea would have to learn how to solve their own internecine problems.

    4. If North Korea attacks South Korea, the former risks defeat or weakening. In any event, the status quo would be permanently altered. The default American objective then shifts to containment (not engagement) in order to prevent the spread of the conflict.

    5. There is a risk of massive Korean casualties.

    6. North Korean nuclear weapons should be secured.

    7. Other.

    {"commentId":7328399,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
    • 1 vote
    #4.1 - Thu May 28, 2009 12:40 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":7325923,"authorDomain":"darrellxhardcore"}

    @!$%# em lets go to war!!

    {"commentId":7325923,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"darrellxhardcore"}
      Reply#5 - Thu May 28, 2009 10:44 AM EDT
      {"commentId":7338817,"authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}

      The problem is that little nut job and his ruling class view about 75% of their own population as being expendable. They are expendable because they produce very few things that the ruling 25% need, plus they insist on being fed. The ruling class in North Korea would probably be happier with a drastically reduced population in their country because that way when they succeed in extorting payments to Pyongyang from abroad they don't have to spread the wealth at all, not even a little bit.

      The ruling 25% may well have fixed things up so they can go underground and miss all the fun of a tit for tat nuclear exchange. They also probably correctly assume that if they manage to take out even one American city, America will retaliate with at most a dozen nukes and then stop and wring our hands in horror at the environmental effects (which our own media will greatly over-exaggerate.)

      Then all little nut job has to do is pop his head out enough to make it known that he is still alive and still has enough capability left hidden in caves to take out another couple American cities, or at least Tokyo. What does the Obama administration do then?

      Well, probably they start "negotiating" which will end up being a capitulation and the USA entirely paying to rebuild North Korea, which is now unified with S. Korea meaning Japan and the USA are flooded with refugees.

      This scenario is actually so likely that the Obama administration sees it and senses the need to pre-capitulate. Not building a nuclear missile shield over Japan is a step in that direction.

      {"commentId":7338817,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}
        Reply#6 - Thu May 28, 2009 9:43 PM EDT
        {"commentId":7340048,"authorDomain":"matthew-babiarz"}

        In this case I dont think China is using North Korea as a proxy for its own posturing. That makes no sense from an economic standpoint. I am also not convinced that China has that much control over what the North Koreans do or dont do. I think that the NK government, as paranoid as it is, has to view China as a potential threat. If North Korea were to get so far outside of what one could call normal lunacy, I do not believe that it is too much of a stretch to see a possible Chinese intervention, in order to prevent an incursion by its true competitors, the west. As much as China looks like at the U.S. as a rival, they own lots of our debt, and we buy lots of their stuff. We need eachother economically, and that can make for a very stable relationship.

        {"commentId":7340048,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"matthew-babiarz"}
          Reply#7 - Thu May 28, 2009 11:28 PM EDT
          {"commentId":7351733,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

          Fareed Zakaria for one predicts the upcoming "Sino-American Century". But is this wishful thinking? If China cannot KNOCKOUT a foe in its backyard, how can China expect to be a universal power broker?

          {"commentId":7351733,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
          • 1 vote
          #7.1 - Fri May 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT
          {"commentId":7360927,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

          China's problem is similar to ours: any instrument of power, including the military instrument, is useless if you do not have the stomach to use it. And threats only work if the bluff is not called---or the bluff IS called and the threatened action is undertaken. Neither we nor China has much street cred with respect to using unbridled military power in recent decades. One could quite easily destroy North Korea and most of its citizens, but don't count on either of us trying it.

          {"commentId":7360927,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
          • 1 vote
          #7.2 - Sat May 30, 2009 8:11 AM EDT
          {"commentId":7505808,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

          I think your analysis of China's ambivalence is an apt one, as is the observation that the major powers, including China, can respond only weakly to North Korea's actions.

          {"commentId":7505808,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
            #7.3 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 8:42 AM EDT
            Reply
            {"commentId":7366218,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

            Now that we have discussed just a few of the consequences of unilateral American withdrawal, it is in order to propose a reasonable plan for reconciliation of the Koreas.

            No side wants unrelenting bloodletting. No side wants the consequences of destabilization that comes with major change. It is a truism that an unpleasant known is often preferable to the anxiety of the unknown. But this is also the unfortunate psyche of an immature or dysfunctional system.

            In many ways Korea has not been allowed to develop because of the intervention of perhaps well-meaning big powers. There is a rift in the Korean family.

            The big power of the United States is a known to both sides. Periodic confrontations with the United States have given North Korea an unreasonable standing in the international community.

            I propose a re-conceptualization of multi-party negotiations away from containment of North Korea and toward the normalization of relations between North and South (ON THEIR TERMS), with the understanding that one way or another the United States is PHASING the withdrawal of its forces.

            {"commentId":7366218,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
            • 1 vote
            Reply#8 - Sat May 30, 2009 4:17 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7367643,"authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}

            Frankly, if I could be Obama the next few months I would offer China this deal: you (China) must make little nut job and his military caste accept a reconciliation with S Korea that ends the NK nuclear weapons program and fully preserves both SK democracy and its capitalistic prosperity. In return I would guarantee China that by 2050 the USA will completely annul all guarantees to Taiwan and discontinue any pledge of military support.

            Taiwan and NK will absolutely hate this kind of high-handed Big Power diplomacy. Yet this is what I would do. We absolutely need China to solve this problem for us and we have no other plum big enough to encourage them to do it.

            {"commentId":7367643,"threadId":"587895","contentId":"2864781","authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}
              Reply#9 - Sat May 30, 2009 6:44 PM EDT
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