{"contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

Guantanamo Episode III: Copping a Plea

In the last installment of the long-running Guantanamo Show, the Congress asserted its primacy by refusing to fund the closure of the American facility in Cuba, and President Obama announced that, to administer justice to detainees, he may use the Bush-era military tribunal trial system, after all. Perhaps the French are right: the more things change, the more they stay the same.

And now the administration says that detainees charged with the most egregious offenses---including Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who proudly avers that he was the organizer of the 9-11 attacks---may be permitted to plead guilty to avoid the death penalty. Although the prospect of murderers' escaping the needle may be repulsive to some people, copping a plea may please all the litigants, but this means yet another change in the inconsistent patchwork of rules established to deal with these people.

Originally, the idea was that the prisoners of the war on terror, a term of convenience now obsolete, would remain incarcerated for the duration of the conflict. This scheme has parallels with procedures in conventional war, in which prisoners are not repatriated until the armistice, but since the expectation was that the war against terrorists would last an indeterminate period of time, so would the period of internment.

It didn't take long for the Bush administration to be swamped with complaints about these arrangements, and the system of tribunals was devised. This was something of a bastard arrangement in which many detainees were released, while the remainder were to have their cases heard in situ by military judges who used some procedures similar to those in courts martial. Among the rules of interest here is the requirement that a defendant may not plead guilty in a case for which the maximum penalty is death. That is, the possibility of a capital penalty demands that there must be a trial, whether the defendant wants one or not.

But a trial does not suit the government, because there is always the possibility that the guilty may go free, and the government's evidence includes both classified material and some information gleaned through coercive measures. And notwithstanding the detainees' assertions that they want martyrdom, it appears that they prefer the certainty of incarceration to the probability of death.

Some are already grousing about these new arrangements, and much more consternation will be heard from those who want full disclosure of American excesses so that they will not recur, or so that the fanaticism of jihadists can be revealed in full, or so that the previous administration can be heaped with maximum ignominy. If President Obama gets his way, objectors along the entire political spectrum will be have plenty to complain about.

{"contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
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{"commentId":7507828,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}

Col. Jacobs, I find this prospect appalling especially in the case of KSM and Ramzi Binalshibh, both of whom "confessed" well before they were apprehended in Pakistan. I see no need of anything further for these two "gentlemen" save for their dangling at the end of the hangman's rope.

{"commentId":7507828,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 12:15 PM EDT
{"commentId":7508564,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}

Excuse me, but if this guy confssed, and there is no question of guilt, why would he be offered life instead of execution? Only the creation of a new martyr would be justification - but in this case, I don't think such would be sufficient to forestall justice.

The sooner he stands before God and receives his personal 72 virgins - virgin demons to torment him for all eternity - the better.

{"commentId":7508564,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"nofluer"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 1:20 PM EDT
{"commentId":7508642,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}

Now, now friend you know that we cannot be offending our European friends with such things as executing these creatures. Their sensibilities are quite delicate in this area. One of the primary reasons the prosecution did not seek the death penalty for Zacarias Moussaoui is that French intelligence predicated their cooperation in his prosecution on our not seeking that penalty as he is a French citizen.

{"commentId":7508642,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 1:27 PM EDT
{"commentId":7508727,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}

Sooo... that means that the victims can now sue the French government for damages and loss?

{"commentId":7508727,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"nofluer"}
  • 1 vote
#2.2 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 1:35 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":7509605,"authorDomain":"Wheel"}
But a trial does not suit the government, because there is always the possibility that the guilty may go free,

Of course the problem with that thinking is that the innocent have no chance and so the U. S. becomes another banana republic where victims of the govt are considered guilty until proven innocent with no chance of being proven innocent. Hmmm... maybe I should drop a dime on Bill Harrison.

{"commentId":7509605,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"Wheel"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#3 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 2:56 PM EDT
{"commentId":7510076,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}

Sorry wheel but you'd need a lot more than a dime to drop on me with some of the connections I have in this town.

{"commentId":7510076,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 3:34 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":7524552,"authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}

My opinion is, if our prisons can handle crazed self-mutilating cannibalistic pedophiles, then it can handle these pedestrian chaps. They'd likely be eaten alive if left in a general prison populace so they're looking at solitary confinement until death. Hardly the cakewalk right-wing pundits say these terrorists will get in our luxury prisons.

If we're going to tout freedom, equality, due process, and what not, I think we should walk the walk on it even in the worst of cases. This is the worst of cases. Like it or not, they're now our responsibility. So do something about them. I'm not saying it's even right or easy, but just letting them sit their makes it look like we've no idea what we've been doing for the past 8 years.

{"commentId":7524552,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}
    Reply#4 - Mon Jun 8, 2009 1:42 PM EDT
    {"commentId":7531141,"authorDomain":"matthew-babiarz"}

    I dont think the death penalty is really an option in most of these cases. Far too much time would be wasted on appealsm, and a good deal of clever lawyering could probably get more than one of these people off. Plead them out to life without parole, throw them in the deepest darkest hole that a federal supermax has, and let it end there. For the left, if these trials become a public circus theywill signifcantly de-rail the administration's domestic efforts (and your party has bet its near term political future on the economy), for the right, do we really want to know how many times we had to water-board these idiots before they talked.....

    {"commentId":7531141,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"matthew-babiarz"}
      Reply#5 - Mon Jun 8, 2009 6:38 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7551668,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

      Good article, as usual. Engaging.  The thought of perpetual internment during the duration of a conflict, absent unnecessary and possibly compromising meddling, is a simple, sensible and tried approach.

      My computer crashed on the day of Obama's address to Muslims, so I have not had the benefit of seeing it yet.  I plan to review it and make comments, especially in regard to the issue of settlements.  My computer should be repaired by the end of the week.

      {"commentId":7551668,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#6 - Tue Jun 9, 2009 10:52 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7685069,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

      Now that my computer is repaired, memory greatly improved, and software restored, it is time to get back to work.

      {"commentId":7685069,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
        #6.1 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:15 PM EDT
        Reply
        {"commentId":7573364,"authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}

        Hmmm, something in the press today about a tiny Pacific Island nation that is agreeing to take this people! I wish this little island paradise would issue permits to those of us Americans who would like to go hunting exotic game species on those islands. I am about to buy a Springfield Armory M-21 (latest sniper version of the venerable Garand) with a Nightorce scope that would be so fine on such an excursion.

        But more seriously, off on another thread I am fighting a tremendous battle against the French, who are trying to blame the crash of the Airbus A-300 off of Brazil either on pitot tubes or on suspected Muslim extremists. No, no, no, the damn airplane crashed because the A-300 fused a carbon composite tail section to a metal airplane and the tail failed again, as it did in Queens, New York, late in 2001. What the hell good is a rudder if it is so fragile you can't use it to overcome turbulence? I hate terrorism as much as the next red-blooded American, but the French are trying to stave off a multi-bllion dollar hit due to the fact that every A-300 in the world should be grounded until the vertical stabilizer and rudder assemblies can be replaced.

        {"commentId":7573364,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}
        • 1 vote
        Reply#7 - Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:52 PM EDT
        {"commentId":7965980,"authorDomain":"tom-carter"}

        What we have with Guantanamo, and the fate of people incarcerated there, is an example of a politician making promises without really knowing the facts. When Obama promised during the campaign to close Guantanamo, I couldn't help wondering how he was going to manage that. Apparently he and his advisers didn't think it through.

        I suppose that holding prisoners at Guantanamo during the "war on terror" made some sense at the time. We had to do something with them. But now Gitmo is a nearly unsolvable problem for Obama. It'll be interesting to see how he deals with it.

        {"commentId":7965980,"threadId":"597417","contentId":"2904918","authorDomain":"tom-carter"}
          Reply#8 - Wed Jul 1, 2009 12:14 PM EDT
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