{"contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

The Iran Show

President George W. Bush was fond of saying that all people want democracy, and in a very general sense he was probably right. But his misadventures prove that wanting democracy isn't enough. People have to be willing to fight for it.

He is not the first president whose naive idealism was overtaken by the harshness of reality, and most of his predecessors stumbled in similar---though usually less spectacular---ways. John F. Kennedy failed in epic fashion, by landing Cuban counter-revolutionaries at the Bay of Pigs, with the mission of toppling Fidel Castro. The effort was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way. The young JFK learned lessons that evidently did not survive his assassination, for in the many intervening years---Kennedy would be 92 this year---all his successors erred, despite the recognition that in the battle between naked ideals and naked truncheons, ideals often lose.

It is ironic that, despite its reputation for aggressiveness, the Bush administration had a policy toward Iran that could charitably be called passive, a policy of hope alone. Hope that American entreaties alone would convince the bellicose leadership to change its policies. Hope that the Russians would magically recognize that it wasn't wise to support Iran's destabilizing behavior. Hope that the moderates inside Iran would revolt against the mullahs.

It should come as no shock that extremists revolt, but moderates usually do not. The Obama administration, perhaps understanding the implacability of the Iranian government and the very small number of options available to affect the situation, sounds increasingly frustrated. With great fanfare, the White House hailed the recent UN Security Council resolution chastising Teheran, but the resolution was toothless and predictably sank without a trace.

The latest charade was the Iranian election, and although the subsequent massive demonstrations have made for great television, they have resulted only in the death and injury of those demonstrating against the steel grip of the Iranian government and its Revolutionary Guards. Schooled in the effectiveness of mass communications in the United States, we are currently transfixed by the resolve of the plucky Iranian masses to increase their political leverage through modern means as they cleverly switch from banned text messaging to Twitter. The effort would be risible if it were not for the near inevitability of more bloodshed but without the attendant reform.

The American colonies became the United States through the force of arms, the revolutionaries among us recognizing presciently what Mao succinctly said two centuries later: political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. A velvet revolution is possible in Iran, and one should fervently hope for it. But hope is not a policy and will produce positive results only by chance. When George W. Bush said that everybody wants democracy, "everybody" meant Iran, too. But if Iranians want democracy, they, too, will have to fight for it. They will have to make the same investment made by our founders in our own Declaration of Independence: a pledge to commit their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor.

{"contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
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{"commentId":7705628,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}

I think many Iranians desperately want democracy-- and are indeed willing to fight for it. However, many do not, and would prefer to live under the rule of the current Islamist thugocracy.

{"commentId":7705628,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:08 PM EDT
{"commentId":8824030,"authorDomain":"cam-1275266"}

you are wrong. most iranians find the cost of fighting too great, but still want freedom. the only iranians who prefer the current regime are the ones who have their own interested tied in. there are only a handful of those people

{"commentId":8824030,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"cam-1275266"}
    #1.1 - Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:03 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8961211,"authorDomain":"sunblocker"}

    when Governments, good or bad invest huge sums into military and police control..this is what you have, a tyranny..this can be in a democratic and dictatorship governments..so what this mean ??? THEY FIND IT HARD TO FIGHT...many, many lives can be disposed of in great numbers..due to the power..I feel that's when many, many social problems become apparent..the people of Iran will suffer greatly, due to the situation..their culture will erode in due time and their people will suffer many mental and social problems..more than likely, they'll soon have 100's/ l,000's of prisons to oppress their people.. then they may follow Saddam's rule and just start eradicating those that do not abide or give to the power...

    {"commentId":8961211,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"sunblocker"}
    • 1 vote
    #1.2 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:33 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":7708829,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

    Democracy is a political system that should not be confused with the inherent drive of all people to crave freedom, irrespective of their political system. Historically, American democracy has been the most successful expression of liberty because of 1) its checks and balances, and more importantly, 2) the moral self-regulation of it citizens, which is the natural social expression of reform-minded religions, especially early-American Protestantism.

    If either of these two pillars of American democracy fail, so in time will liberty. The government must do its part in preserving the checks and balances in a manner that engenders faith in the system as the arbiter of social ethics; but the people, one by one, must fulfill their own part in the social compact by nurturing a personal reform-mindedness, which usually is assisted by affiliation with some form of organized religion. On the level of the individual soul with its drives and especially aspirations, there is little difference between Iranians and Americans, or for that matter anyone else.

    Frankly, the trend of the future is toward fascism, both at home and abroad. We see evidence of this as our own democratic government intrudes more and more into the heretofore primarily private sector. This is inevitable in the face of global population growth and diminishing resources, especially energy.

    The global contest is between benign fascism and violent fascism. Unfortunately, the Iranian Revolution styled itself the Islamic Revolution and vowed to export violence to spread Islam. This mandate is explicit in the Constitution of Iran. Iran is Islamic, but Islam is not exclusively Iranian. If Islam is to be a religion of peace, it cannot advocate violence as a policy.

    A viable global future will require the wisdom of a Solomon and the skill of a David as we forge the New World Order. Eventually, Liberty must give way to Solidarity. There is no cause to fear this for they are sisters. Solidarity, like Liberty, is non-violent.

    In respect to Iranian affairs leading up to and in the wake of their recent presidential election, I have noticed a stark shift in the West's tone toward the office of the Supreme Leader. The western press has been deferential, referring to the government as the Iranian style of Democracy instead of the heretofore totalitarian Republic of Iran.

    But with this new tone comes a heightened responsibility as Iran seeks its alignments on the world stage. There is no doubt whatsoever that the door to the West is open, but so is the door to the East, as the presumed winner Iranian President Ahmadinejad met with the president of Russia yesterday.

    The lasting question is the extent of the Supreme Leader's practical authority. Moral authority demands that he reconcile moderates and hardliners, perhaps through power sharing in the country's bureaucracy. In any event, the will of the people, the expression of divine Providence, indicates a trend toward middle values.

    When Iran's Supreme Leader prematurely announced the victory of Ahmadinejad, the Supreme Leader gravely erred by politicizing his own office. Only time will tell whether this can be rectified. He may have to publicly state that he has been deceived and call for new elections with the appropriate transparency controls, including international observers.

    Given the history between the United States and Iran, President Obama has been brilliant in publicly stating that the United States will engage Iran irrespective of the outcome of the election.

    Change is the future. Change is peaceful coexistence. Iran must renounce violence and amend its Constitution accordingly. Violence is not the approved path for reform in Iran.

    {"commentId":7708829,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#2 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:04 PM EDT
    {"commentId":9559506,"authorDomain":"RobtAlan-296162"}

    Neron,

    A very nice theory, however our nation is built on the separation of church and state. Americans can practice any religion they want as long as it doesn't interfere in the rights of others. If you read what our founding fathers thought about religion, many were very much afraid of it's influence and many were athiests, George Wahington comes to mind. Iran's nuclear ambitions are rejected by the entire world and things will become more difficult with sanctions as the international community starts adding more pressure. Their failure to cooperate will be their undoing.

    {"commentId":9559506,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"RobtAlan-296162"}
      #2.1 - Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:12 PM EDT
      {"commentId":9562705,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

      My position on Iran has not changed from that expressed as comment #1 here:

      http://jackjacobs.newsvine.com/_news/2009/06/25/2959928-teheran-one-week-later

      We are likely one step closer to regional consensus BY THE MAJOR POWERS on a policy of ensured non-proliferation by lesser powers, given the modification announced today regarding a US missile shield in Eastern Europe. Today's announcement should give Iran exceeding pause.

      {"commentId":9562705,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
      • 1 vote
      #2.2 - Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:30 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":7710183,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}

      America is not supposed to be a "democracy" and anyone who says it was designed to be is an ignorant clod - which includes most of our politicians from the President on down.

      It's designed to be a Constitutional Republic. Get it right.

      {"commentId":7710183,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"nofluer"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#3 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:37 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7715234,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

      One is reminded of Churchill's observation about the republican form of democracy---which in our case is a Constitutional republic and in the UK's a parliamentary monarchy: Democracy is the worst form of government---except for all the others. It's a frustrating and often ineffective way to govern, easily corrupted, very expensive, slow, bureaucratic, and wasteful. It attracts the worst elements of society, runs on the love of money and not selfless service, and is populated mostly by cynics, hypocrites and clowns. Still, it could be worse, and many nations suffer under forms of government even less responsive to the will of the people. If we are to have better government---it will never be good, but it can be a lot better---it will only be when the majority in public life are people of skill and honor, and that will only occur if the electorate forces it to happen.

      {"commentId":7715234,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
      • 3 votes
      #3.1 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:14 AM EDT
      {"commentId":7719157,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

      A primary test of good government is whether its people are happy and prosperous. Social well-being does not necessarily require American democracy as the preferred form of government.

      I think polls much more reflect the real state of affairs when instead of focusing on approval/disapproval ratings, they ask questions like:

      "Are you happy . . ."

      "Are you better off . . ."

      I recall reading a footnote in the first volume of John Marshall's "Life of Washington" in which a pre-Revolution of governor of Pennsylvania wrote that the form of government does not matter so long as its leadership is moral.

      Also, President Bush erred when he claimed that peace will be achieved by democratic states living side by side in the Middle East. Moral leadership, not democracy, is the key to peace.

      {"commentId":7719157,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
      • 2 votes
      #3.2 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:18 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7727865,"authorDomain":"terencemcsweeney"}

      Neron Kesar, excellent post! I really don't believe Bush cared one way or another about democracy in the Middle East. He sure didn't try to persuade his great friends the Saudis to try a little democracy. No, I think the democracy argument was just another pitch to sell a war that he started for other reasons altogether; one of them to take attention away from Saudi complicity in 9-11.

      {"commentId":7727865,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"terencemcsweeney"}
      • 1 vote
      #3.3 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:33 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7730128,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

      On June 4, 2009 in a major speech titled "A New Beginning", President Obama outlined his Administration's commitment to engage the Muslim world based upon mutual interests.

      The President delivered his speech from Cairo, Egypt. Egypt is an Arab Sunni Muslim stronghold, as is Saudi Arabia. Iran, on the other hand, is Persian and Shia Muslim. There is an historic rivalry between these two houses of Islam.

      Obama may have chosen the setting and occasion as a strategy to "divide and conquer" Islam. He avoided the usual presidential stop in Israel, so the houses of Islam could not unite themselves against their common enemy, the Jews, and thus avoid the necessary need to address their own differences and divisions. Obama indirectly but intentionally criticized the "ignorance and untruthfulness" of the Iranian leadership, but he did not criticize the lack of democratic reforms in either Egypt or Saudi Arabia.

      {"commentId":7730128,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
      • 1 vote
      #3.4 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:30 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":7719513,"authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}

      I had fully expected the election to be rigged, but the government probably did not anticipate the magnitude of outrage being expressed by its people.

      As was the case with the Soviet Union, a true shift toward a more democratic society must evolve from within. It cannot successfully be imposed by an outside force via saber rattling. Hopefully, the Iranian populace will be able to gradually erode the dictatorial stronghold inherent in a theocracy.

      {"commentId":7719513,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}
        Reply#4 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:33 PM EDT
        {"commentId":7719646,"authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}

        Of the three 'Evil' powers, Iran seemingly has the proper foundations for it's own revolution. Sadaam was a brutal tyrant, and through that kept check of the powder keg set off in the middle years of the Iraq War. North Korea seems to have counter-revolutionary to a T. Keep the populace so oppressed, so malnourished, so uneducated that they can't boil water much less overthrow your government. Unless you join the military, but by then you're another indoctrinated tool to that bobble-headed cross-dressing man-child who calls himself a leader.

        Ahem.

        So you have Iran. A modern Middle Eastern country with a very large youth population who are growing increasingly perturbed by their theocracy (a god-awful form of governance that can't die soon enough). They are likely going to change things one way or another due to the active influx of Western ideals.

        But here's the dangerous mistake we may make; they may like what America has, not necessarily what America is. So at this point, we should remain at a distance and keep our mouths shut. If there is a revolt and they want help, they'll ask. Anything else is meddling.

        {"commentId":7719646,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}
          Reply#5 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:39 PM EDT
          {"commentId":7737423,"authorDomain":"lambchop"}

          Ultimately "YOUTH WINS"... simply thru staying power; see our own overthrow of the Bush strangle hold on social freedoms... the questions is When Will The Game Be Over?... and Will We Be Alive To Celebrate It?

          {"commentId":7737423,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"lambchop"}
            #5.1 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:07 AM EDT
            Reply
            {"commentId":7721014,"authorDomain":"pencon61"}

            Democrasy is only once every 4 years , in between that it's a dictatorship

            {"commentId":7721014,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"pencon61"}
            • 1 vote
            Reply#6 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:36 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7721141,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

            Do you feel like your freedoms are eroding under Obama?

            {"commentId":7721141,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
            • 1 vote
            #6.1 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:42 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7722041,"authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}

            It's a Republic. The people pick a representative of their beliefs. I doubt you have any real reckoning of what an actual dictatorship is like. Personally, I feel more oppressed by my HOA. Meet some of the mini-Mussolinis these organizations spawn.

            As for rights, it's been a steady erosion since the Civil War, with of course some notable exceptions like the civil rights movement, the Internet, etc. Pinning it on one president, be it Bush or Obama, is disingenuous. The more of 'x' available to civilians, the more the government wants to ban, regulate, or tax. The Republican assertion as the party of small government is laughable hypocrisy.

            {"commentId":7722041,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}
              #6.2 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:22 PM EDT
              {"commentId":7722413,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

              Is that the key to social change -- stop paying taxes?

              {"commentId":7722413,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
              • 1 vote
              #6.3 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:39 PM EDT
              {"commentId":7725437,"authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}

              Any number of grand acts staged by a large amount of people brings about social change. By even a small number of people, really. Whether it's right or even smart is debatable. Look at how our society, vast as it is, has changed in 8 years because one organization flew three planes into three buildings.

              So yes, if enough people stop feeding the government, it stops growing. Probably not very effective or the best way to go about it but, it would have an effect. A government on the financial ropes doesn't have the cash to waste money on piddlin' nonsense like gay marriage and drug wars.

              {"commentId":7725437,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}
                #6.4 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:54 PM EDT
                Reply
                {"commentId":7733151,"authorDomain":"matthew-babiarz"}

                While the similarities between these protests, and those of the 1979 Islamic Revolution, are quite striking, I highly doubt that we are on the cusp of real change in Iran. The Supreme Leader is, as far as we know, still firmly in control of both the Revolutionary Gaurd and the Guardian council. I guess we have to assume that the Supreme Leader is still a rational actor, the actions of the government thus far lend support to that argument, however I cannot envision a scenario in which he would abdicate on the basis of popular dissent. Colonel Jacobs is correct in asserting that armed conflict is the most direct course to change. Given the size of the stick that the government wields, I would highly doubt that kind of action to be successful.

                I wonder if it would be in the best interest of the status quo for Khameni to come out in support of the opposition candidate? The power that the President wields is debatable, and it certainly would boost popular support for the Supreme Leader.

                {"commentId":7733151,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"matthew-babiarz"}
                  Reply#7 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:00 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":7746007,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

                  The current Supreme Leader of Iran today reiterated his opinion the recent presidential election was transparent, legitimate, and that Ahmadinejad is the rightful winner. This position is disingenuous. The Supreme Leader politicized the sanctity of his office by prematurely announcing the victory of Ahmadinejad long before all ballots could possibly be counted; the Supreme Leader now refuses to acknowledge his error and guide the political process toward a fair, just and moral outcome.

                  The Supreme Leader no longer hears the voice of God as expressed in the Providence of the people. The people of Iran should take to the streets by millions and peacefully protest, even if the protests are declared illegal. Protesters should continue their protests until the government addresses their legitimate concerns.

                  The people must act to preserve the Republic and the sanctity of the office of the Supreme Leader from this evident usurpation.

                  {"commentId":7746007,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#8 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:46 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":7750254,"authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}

                  Charles Krautheimer perhaps best summed up the Iranian situation today. The Obama administration appears to be taking the side of the present illegitimate government of Iran, which is to say that the Obamunists do not intend to help the Green Revolution in the slightest--no encouragement, no weapons, no meaningful support of any kind.

                  Why? Well, because basically the modern social leftist "progressive" American is more than a little anti-democratic. Worse than that, they all are both stingy and cowardly. They want all the resources for their own benefit, all of the time. If your neighbor's house is on fire, well, too bad for them. Water is scarce, we have to save ours. If your neighbor's wife and daughters are being raped and taken away by Vikings and he wants your help to fight them, well, too bad for him, we are trying to settle an important trade pact with the Vikings.

                  Scratch away the glossy PR surface of Obamunism, that's what it is--the cowardly and most nastily self-interested evolution of inherently amoral pragmatism.

                  {"commentId":7750254,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}
                    Reply#9 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:14 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":7770472,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

                    The Iranian Revolution in 1979 has been compared to the Solidarity Movement in Poland that occurred at about the same time. It is stated that the former relied on the infallibility of religion while the latter relied on the infallibility of the people for their authority.

                    Some observers are now suggesting that the theocracy of Iran is a failed form of government; that the authority of the people transcends the infallibility of the Supreme Leader.

                    I myself have advocated a blend of religion and state as a model of government in Iraq, and eventually in Israel. While not precisely the same as the model in Iran, and developed independently of any detailed awareness of it; I have called this Iraqi model a Christocracy rather than a theocracy because it something entirely new.

                    The current crisis in Iran has given occasion to briefly discuss an important difference in these governmental approaches. A Supreme Leader, although infallible in matters of religion, is NOT infallible in matters of state. Statecraft is and always will be a work in progress because a government must be vigilant in finding ways to adapt to changing circumstances that are the inevitable nature of life.

                    The primary role of a Supreme Leader is that of Guide and Guardian of faith and morals. He must be above politics and evade any incessant attempts to snare his office in temporal affairs that do not materially impede the free expression of faith and morals.

                    I have advocated an Iraqi Christocracy with limited self-rule. This is a form of government in which a theological head of state holds oversight over the people, who in turn determine their own individual and corporate destiny through democratic free elections, representation, free assembly, and especially free and vigorous public debate through a free, independent press.

                    The Supreme Leader should guard the liberties of the people in seeking their own self-determination, interfering only out of a measured, rare, and careful paternal watchman-ship.

                    Admissions of error in temporal matters of state are not incompatible with the office of Supreme Leader, and not necessarily grounds for removal from office or an altogether new form of government.

                    {"commentId":7770472,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#10 - Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:49 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":7777361,"authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}

                    For many years I advocated a blend of religion and state in Utah. It actually works out well when you are talking about smart people with sensible lifestyles.

                    Actually, every nation should have a prophet-in-chief. The Greeks had the Oracle of Delphi, to whom the Athenians should have listened before trying to conquer Sicily.

                    {"commentId":7777361,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}
                      Reply#11 - Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:36 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":7797770,"authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}

                      It occurs to me today that the best solution to Iran's problem is the traditional military coup hatched by a group of officers who really don't want to go to war with each other or the police. The coup is a great way of defusing a civil war and separating the irate parties by pushing them both to the sidelines while the military takes over and pursues some muddled middle path.

                      {"commentId":7797770,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}
                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#12 - Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:44 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":7808461,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

                      Guns are a last resort. I am not unsympathetic to your suggestion under the right circumstances, but I do not believe that that time has arrived.

                      The Iranian government has shown poor judgment and a series of miscalculations. A government that lacks popular legitimacy will not stand for long.

                      The popular protests in Iran are a democratic movement; internal and from the ground up. It is a spontaneous expression from the heart of the Iranian people. If outside powers interfere, they would deny the people of their pride and self-determination. The West must let the process work itself to its natural conclusion.

                      As evinced by the Iranian Revolution of 1979, the Iranian leadership has an honored history with university students and their sympathizers. This should not be forgotten.

                      The sanctity of the office of Supreme Leader should be protected and the noblest principles of the Islamic Republic preserved.

                      The Iranian economy is shaky; this can be improved by peaceful engagement with the West.

                      Peaceful, non-confrontational protests in Iran should continue unabated. Sympathizers should now consider the option of Solidarity-style labor strikes.

                      {"commentId":7808461,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
                      • 2 votes
                      #12.1 - Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:43 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":7813476,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

                      The premise of Solidarity is "ONE OR NONE". This is also a slogan.

                      There is ONE Iran. All persons -- men and women -- ought to participate equally and freely in all liberties afforded to citizens. A denial of liberty to any class is an assault against the whole body of Iran. The country must move forward as ONE united Iran, recognizing the right and role of all to a fully representative republic.

                      {"commentId":7813476,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
                      • 1 vote
                      #12.2 - Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:30 PM EDT
                      Reply
                      {"commentId":7832399,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

                      Green, black, and gold are the transitional colors of the living Mahdi. The Twelfth Imam, Mahdi, has the legitimate authority, an authority greater than that of the Supreme Leader.

                      The Mahdi heralds from the Evergreen Isles. These colors cannot be declared illegal any more than the government of Iran can deny the rightful Mahdi.

                      This is the time of the Green Revolution.

                      {"commentId":7832399,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#13 - Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:25 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":7869350,"authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}

                      Apparently the Iraninan military already has things as they like it in Iran.

                      {"commentId":7869350,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"cookaerospace"}
                        Reply#14 - Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:13 AM EDT
                        {"commentId":8513993,"authorDomain":"tacticalparamedic"}

                        Its nice to sit and read the opinions of armchair politico's... comfortably distant from the fray. having just returned from Iran and having many Iranian friends who are not 'In' with the current regime it would be an understatement to say these people are fed up with current system of exclusion, corruption, oppression and repression.

                        Neron's insistant belief in a 'Supreme' Leader is mind boggling, his prose are well thought out and writ and would otherwise suggest and intelligent individual, but then a lot of the dictorial types are pretty damn clever, and incidentally I always was under the impression that only 'God' him/her-self was Supreme.

                        In addition to the anger at the fiasco of a free and fair election people are also angry and furious at the blatant corruption of their so-called democracy by the government, their families and friends.

                        As a foreigner working there I have the unfortunate experience of having to interact and advise government appoiintee's who are neither educated or experienced in what they are supposedly to manage, infact they are fundamentalists who think the Korans will solve their technical problems... Duhhhhhh........ to call them idiots would be an actual insult to idiots, but sadly thats how they run anything of importance.

                        So all you who support any form of religious interference in government, you should try it, makes for an amusingly tragic result...

                        {"commentId":8513993,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"tacticalparamedic"}
                          Reply#15 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:35 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":9261336,"authorDomain":"williams-bruce"}

                          You are right, we mistake public opinion for power, when in totalitarian society it is only a sign of coming repression. Being on the news means nothing when all decisions are made by a few or even one man.

                          {"commentId":9261336,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"williams-bruce"}
                            Reply#16 - Sat Sep 5, 2009 8:02 AM EDT
                            {"commentId":9294797,"authorDomain":"bigmouth1"}

                            The Iranian population is staring down the barrel of a gun before the battle can begin.

                            This is what happens when the general population becomes more and more complaisant

                            and less involved in their own leadership and government. Combine that with the mixture

                            of church and state, being the same, and you have the current Iran.

                            This is just like an everyday hostage situation except on a large scale.

                            The first thing that is done in a hostage situation is to establish communication.

                            The rest should be somewhat predictable given that there is really only

                            two choices of the outcome. I think we should know how to proceed from here

                            in dealing with Iran.

                            {"commentId":9294797,"threadId":"606019","contentId":"2939407","authorDomain":"bigmouth1"}
                              Reply#17 - Mon Sep 7, 2009 2:35 PM EDT
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