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COL. JACK JACOBS

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{"contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

Will Health Care Look Like the V.A.?

News Type: Opinion — Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:42 PM EDT
us-news, obama, congress, health-care, senate, insurance, taxes, pelosi, veterans, vote, medical, house-of-representatives, va, medicaid, uninsured, bureaucracy, drugmedicare, public-medicine
Col. Jack Jacobs
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With the Obama administration struggling to pass health care legislation, and with news outlets and elected officials talking about little else, the president has mounted the podium to exhort citizens on the subject. As with all politicians' speeches, it was short on substance---some observers close to Mr. Obama say that he is not particularly conversant with the bill's provisions---but it was superior theater, as befits an issue that is heavily laden with emotional content.

No matter what surgery is performed on the bill to fashion it into law, there will be something to offend everyone. As we already know, the legislation, like all legislation, will be a compromise, and so people who want socialized medicine now will be sadly disappointed.

Second, the cost of the program will be very large, and in any case it will be more expensive than projections, perhaps much, much more. Already about 18% of GDP, health care is now stunningly expensive, but the government has a very poor track record of reducing the cost of anything it touches. If it is worthwhile to have, expense alone shouldn't make something unattractive, but nobody should be laboring under the illusion that soaring health care costs will get smaller.

Third, one of the principal objectives of the bill is to cover the large number of people who are currently uninsured, to make medical coverage mandatory, and there are many unanswered questions, not all of which will be addressed in the final bill. The goal is laudable, but some of the unintended consequences of it are not. Of course, that happens whenever the government tries to do something other than govern, and so don't be be surprised if the system grows to be large, insensitive, inefficient, countrproductive---and as large a locus of waste as other federal entitlement programs.

For the majority of us with private health care, there will be no immediate change except a rise in taxes. For those without health insurance, the change will be positive and dramatic, but it is worth asking about what kind of care will be delivered to these people.

One of the largest government health program is in the Veterans' Administration, which treats millions of former service people. Care in some of the facilities is excellent: I remember a recent visit to the VA hospital in Augusta, Georgia, and I was impressed with the high quality of the service provided, particularly to recently-wounded troops. But much of the rest of the VA system has a spotty record, and there is no end of horror stories about long waits for care, poor conditions, misdiagnoses and malfeasance.

The new Secretary of Veterans' Affairs, retired General Eric Shinseki, has pledged to improve the system---and if there is anyone capable of doing that, it is Shinseki---but one wonders if the quality of care now delivered by the VA is all we can expect from the system that President Obama wants. If so, we may not be doing the nation a favor: we will provide lousy care at an extraordinary price.

And if we intend to give them better care, then why don't we already do the same for veterans?

{"contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
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  • Public Discussion (36)
{"commentId":8394509,"authorDomain":"peteresta"}
Pete-285547

I get VA care .............I got nothing to say but very good. 

Austin Texas Outpatient Client plus other facilities.

{"commentId":8394509,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"peteresta"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
{"commentId":8459164,"authorDomain":"pennid"}
PenniD

I do, too. San Antonio Audie Murphy hospital.

{"commentId":8459164,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"pennid"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:59 AM EDT
{"commentId":8459623,"authorDomain":"bad4"}
USAF Vet-923294

Well, my Father went to the VA Hospital in Dallas for four months straight with the same problem. By the time they figured out that it was cancer, it was too late.

I have been going to the one in OKC for over 15 years. I have seen some bad and some good.

{"commentId":8459623,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"bad4"}
  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:11 AM EDT
{"commentId":8478743,"authorDomain":"questforfire"}
questforfire

Sorry to hear your story, USAF VEt...that is a tragedy. I trained at the VA, and, in my view, it's no great shakes.

{"commentId":8478743,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"questforfire"}
  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:26 AM EDT
{"commentId":8479259,"authorDomain":"bad4"}
USAF Vet-923294

I have met many health care workers at the VA and the majority are good people trying to do what they can with what they have.

The biggest problem I have seen at the VA is their need to stay within the their budgets. This means putting some care off, delaying tests until they have the money, delaying specialized care, using less effective medicines, using less sophisticated tests and machines until they can afford them, etc.

They do what they can with what they have. They problem becomes self defeating and creates additional problems through the need to ration health care. It creates long waiting lines, over burdened doctors and nurses and can eventually turn it into an assembly line - which is never good.

{"commentId":8479259,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"bad4"}
  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:34 AM EDT
{"commentId":8480565,"authorDomain":"pennid"}
PenniD

USAF, I found your comment (1.4) very interesting. My experience with the VA is totally different. It seems like I get tested for all kinds of things, and quickly, too. I have never had to wait more than 30 minutes for an appointment, and the doctor(s) all act like they have all the time in the world for me.

I have had specialized care, been in most of the "special" clinics, get the same (if not better) medicine from my doctors that civilians get. The equipment in the five or six places I have been is state of the art, better than what my friends on the outside (civilians) get. The dental clinic is a model for what a dental office should be, and all the dentists I have seen have been top of the line.

I am not saying that your experiences are not valid, I just wonder why my experiences have been so different? Could the VA have shoddy clinics, hospitals and excellent ones just like the civilian medical system? I am just curious about this. Do you have any ideas? It is a very strange situation.

{"commentId":8480565,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"pennid"}
  • 1 vote
#1.5 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:18 AM EDT
{"commentId":8493452,"authorDomain":"bad4"}
USAF Vet-923294

There are numerous reasons for the disparity that happen from one VA Hospital or clinic to another when it concerns budgets.

As with anything in the Government there is politics and the clout of the representatives of those districts. There is the number of people the hospital serves. The basic demographics of each area. The availability of doctors, nurses and technicians in an area. The availability of residents and fellows (Doctors and specialist in training).

For example, consider size. Oklahoma has a population that is roughly equal to the Los Angles, CA and Oklahoma has two hospitals (one in Tulsa and one in OKC) and several clinics. Not to mention that several Veterans in the Southern region of Oklahoma are in the Dallas catchment and others are in the Amarillo, Little Rock or Wichita Catchment.

So, it is only natural that OKC would have a smaller budget, smaller hospital and less equipment and personnel then Dallas.

I have actually picked up on the budget things, because I have an accounting degree and have heard (and spoken with workers) many doctors talkingn about the cost and problems associated with the budet. I have alo witnessed many of these problems first hand.

{"commentId":8493452,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"bad4"}
  • 1 vote
#1.6 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:45 PM EDT
{"commentId":8500178,"authorDomain":"pennid"}
PenniD

USAF, that doesn't really explain why Alexandria, LA has one heck of a great women's clinic, just for female veterans, but the monsterous Audie Murphy doesn't have much of one. Logically (sorry, but its't my life's guide, this logic thing), you'd think it would be opposite. There are lots more female vets in San Antonio than in Cajun Country.

If they can take care of us in one place, (any vet, not just female or male) shouldn't they be able to refer us to another place? I had to jump through hoops for almost a year to get care when I moved from Louisiana to Texas. I had to "re-register" in person, it was like starting all over. There were a few serious slip-ups. If I had to begin my care in San Antonio, I might have just given up.

Fortunately (for me), my first VA experience was with an awesome hospital, the Alexandria, LA one. I wish I could still get my care there. It's not the same here, but I have the American Legion and one heck of a VA rep on my side, and we are getting there.

No, it's not perfect, but I am getting better health care than most people. Thanks to everyone in the Alexandria, LA system for showing me the right way.

{"commentId":8500178,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"pennid"}
  • 2 votes
#1.7 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:26 AM EDT
{"commentId":8504567,"authorDomain":"bad4"}
USAF Vet-923294

Actually, that part can be explained by the politics involved. Congress and the Senate are always trying to garner fund for their own states and districts. One Congress person can sway funds for one thing and another might be go after funds in another area.

For example, our representatives are always trying to get funds for the University of Oklahoma in the area of weather research. That is why OU has the number one meteorology programs in the world. It is also why OU has the best Geology school in the nation. Funds are garnered for OIL research by congress people and senators from Oklahoma.

As I said above, there are multiple things that effect budgeting. It starts at the unit level with request for budgets and works it way to the top and then back down again. The administrators at the VA hospitals can look good if they can cut budgets and stay within them (this also effects performance).

Believe me, it is a complex process that has multiple decisions that effect that out come.

{"commentId":8504567,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"bad4"}
  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:14 AM EDT
{"commentId":8517537,"authorDomain":"pennid"}
PenniD

Thanks, USAF, I've always wondered why the quality of VA care fluctuates so wildly. Like everything else, it seems to be a problem at the top.

{"commentId":8517537,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"pennid"}
  • 1 vote
#1.9 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:54 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":8396814,"authorDomain":"scott-1233990"}
scott-1233990

I use VA. It is great! Low cost, competetent physicians, short waits. Compared to my wife's BC/BS, she waits hours in the Dr. office for mediocre high deductable employer paid care. She chooses her own Docs, but has to take a day off for routine care. Co pay goes up 10% each year. I'll take Govt run VA any day.

{"commentId":8396814,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"scott-1233990"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:53 PM EDT
{"commentId":8401922,"authorDomain":"texasmorrell"}
texasmorrell

VA Clinic Lubbock, Texas........very friendly, very good quality, fast service. I am glad they are there to take care of me. I have employer based coverage from the state of Texas free of charge and I still go to the VA. I hope the new universal system is like the VA, people will be pleasently surprised.

{"commentId":8401922,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"texasmorrell"}
    Reply#3 - Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:56 AM EDT
    {"commentId":8402300,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
    Col. Jack Jacobs

    This is all good news, and these experiences should be the model for the rest of the system. If a high standard of care is to be the norm in any government-run operation, it must be designed into the system from the beginning, and then it needs lots of diligence from management and input from patients to keep it responsive. The irony is that a good system is often much cheaper and less wasteful than one that is poorly run.

    {"commentId":8402300,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#4 - Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:45 AM EDT
    {"commentId":8403967,"authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
    pcbynature

    The hidden cost of healthcare at the VA: loss of privacy and possible loss of Constitutional rights. In the area of mental care, the VA uses the conroversial and unreliable DSM IV.

    For the purpose of determining the extent of damage to a veteran, the VA uses a "scale" to rate the vet. It is known as the GAF and it is included in the DSM lV, called "the bible" by VA psychologists; there have been four versions and a fifth's debut is anticipated for 2012:

    "Perhaps more significantly, they said, DSM-V is likely to include dimensional assessments in addition to the familiar symptom checklists from past versions of the "psychiatrist's bible."

    Since it was first published in 1952, the DSM has provided the definitive word on what is and is not mental illness, with enormous influence within medicine and on the world beyond.

    The elimination of homosexuality as a mental illness in the third DSM edition issued in the 1970s, for example, is now widely viewed as a watershed development in changing society's view from outright hostility to varying degrees of acceptance.

    DSM-V is on track to be published in 2012, capping 13 years of literature reviews, commissioned research, and intensive discussions among more than 160 mental health professionals."

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/APA/14270

    In the example cited above, it should be clear that cultural,social, and philosphical variations between the psychiatrist and the veteran could be crucial when the conclusions of the psychiatrist, based on the DSM, are assumed to be the qualifying factors for compensation and the terms of the compensation denied or granted by the bureaucrats at the Veterans Benefits Administration, all of whom at the most senior levels, are political appointees. The result of this process was the deliberate misdiagnosis of veterans with PTSD:

    " The chairman of the House Veterans Affairs Committee plans a summer attack on the military's disability review system, hoping that congressional hearings focusing on what he called the 'terrible scandal of deliberate misdiagnosis' of mental health problems could lead to an overhaul of government policies.

    Rep. Bob Filner, D-Calif., said he expects to have veterans testify they were improperly diagnosed as having pre-existing personality disorders rather than post-traumatic stress disorder, a move that denies service members military disability benefits and could, under some circumstances, even leave them with no post-service veterans' benefits if their mental health problems have led to misconduct, such as abuse of alcohol or drugs.

    'This is a real scandal, in my opinion, to save a few dollars ... that wrecks lives,' Filner said Thursday in a meeting with reporters to talk about committee plans."

    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/06/military_misdiagnosedvets_070628w/

    The vague and sometimes strange categories in the DSM have been widely critized for decades and one of its pricipal authors admitted the short-comings of the DSM as a diagnostic tool:

    "DSM chief author Robert Spitzer recently admitted on BBC TV: 'What happened is that we made estimates of the prevalence of mental disorders totally descriptively, without considering that many of these conditions might be normal reactions which are not really disorders. That's, that's the problem, because we were not looking at the context in which those conditions developed.'

    In every case of psychiatric abuse that CCHR International has ever dealt with, if there was no life upset, then there was an underlying, neglected physical condition at the root of symptoms and behavior which was then wrongly labeled as a 'mental disorder.' For instance, undetected brain tumors or food or environmental allergies which manifested as sleep disturbance or inexplicable sensations are often given a DSM diagnosis and then "treated" with one or more powerful, mind-altering, life-threatening psychiatric drugs.

    DSM's authors state that they do not know the cause of any mental disorder. So, it is not surprising that there are no objective tests for mental illness (if they don't know the cause, then what would they test?). It is foreseeable that the psychiatric establishment will eventually have to concede that their diagnostic system is completely subjective and that no one ever labeled with a DSM disorder had any mental illness.

    But psychiatrists and psychiatric expert witnesses are counting on plaintiffs and their attorneys to not be aware of the grave shortcomings of their diagnostic system. Recently, CCHR International provided a personal injury attorney with information on the DSM's lack of scientific credibility. She had this to say: 'I did the deposition of the defendant's psychiatric expert. I did some major damage! Defense counsel just about jumped out of their skin when I brought up the fact that the DSM says that there is the potential for misuse or misunderstanding in forensic psychiatry because of the imperfect fit between the ultimate concerns of the law and psychiatry!'

    It may be the American Psychiatric Association's Fifth Amendment right to publish a book that catalogs behaviors and calls them mental disorders but when that theory is applied to the lives of individuals, with often catastrophic results, it becomes another issue entirely."

    http://www.psychcrime.org/articles/Editors_of_Psychiatrys_Diagnostic_Manual_Admit_Its_Unreliability.html

    The DSM is flawed and the flaws are made worse by the personal/poiltical/social beliefs of the medical person using the DSM and its GAF scale at the VA even as recently as last year:

    "Recently released documents from the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) are further proof the VA has failed to adequately address the crisis in veterans' mental health care, according to a former VA employee turned veterans' advocate.

    In March, Norma J. Perez, the post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) coordinator at a VA facility in Temple, Texas, wrote an email (PDF) to her subordinates stating: 'Given that we have more and more compensation seeking veterans, I'd like to suggest that you refrain from giving a diagnosis of PTSD straight out. Consider a diagnosis of adjustment disorder, R/O [ruling out] PTSD ... we really don't ... have time to do the extensive testing that should be done to determine PTSD...

    New VA documents obtained exclusively by VCS using the Freedom of Information Act indicate the VA is only paying disability benefits for PTSD to 33,247 Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans, although 67,717 have been diagnosed with PTSD. According to Sullivan, VCS is calling for an investigation into this apparent discrepancy.

    A Government Accountability Office (GAO) report in September 2007 stated that the VA's 'lack of early identification techniques' led to "inconsistent diagnosis and treatment" of PTSD and Traumatic Brain Injury. According to the GAO, early diagnosis is essential in preventing PTSD's consequences - which could be deadly. "

    http://www.truthout.org/article/veterans-attest-ptsd-neglect-va

    In their landmark book, "The Selling of the DSM," authors Stuart A. Kirk and Herb Kutchins continued the theme of their earlier works in presenting convincing arguments and case histories that that the DSM lll was seriosly flawed and left vets to dismal fates, notably suicide. As we have seen, the flaws of the DSM IV are similar in nature--and consequences. Early in the book, they write:

    "Redefined as a technical problem, diagnostic reliability lost its simpe, intuitive meaning to its practitioners and became, in the hands of a few teams of research psychiatrists, complex and mysified"

    http://books.google.com/books?id=_crqUmHz7mEC&dq=selling+dsm&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=tUZPSs2PBomEtweikZCiBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7

    The continued use of a mystical "bible" for diagnoses ( though this use is unconvincingly denied ) will always suffer from the quirks of societal beliefs, ideological beliefs, the politics of bureacracies, and the strong urge of psychiatrists to sound absolute and scientic in their use of catagories of jargon. The vet meanwhile wioll continue to be denied the services and benefits that common sense could provide.

    "'The committee strongly concludes that the best way to determine whether a person is suffering from PTSD is with a thorough, face-to-face interview by a health professional trained in diagnosing psychiatric disorders,' Mayeux said.

    In asking the IOM to evaluate and confirm the DSM-IV criteria, the VA was not seeking to challenge the criteria but to provide validation of those criteria to those who did challenge them,' said Ira Katz, M.D., Ph.D., deputy chief patient care services officer for mental health at the VA. 'The goals were very well met.'

    Acceptance of the DSM-IV criteria meant that new, idiosyncratic standards need not be created and verified, a major concern for Darrel Regier, M.D., M.P.H., executive director of the American Psychiatric Institute for Research and Education and director of APA's Division of Research.

    'Frankly, I'm surprised that things went so smoothly,' Regier told Psychiatric News. 'A panel of experts agreed that the present criteria were evidence based and that there were plenty of assessment instruments to use.'

    Separating diagnosis from treatment and disability was a good choice because the latter two issues probably lay more at the heart of the VA's concerns, said Regier."

    http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/14/1

    You may remember that Dr. Katz also said that suicde among vets, like cancer, would always be with us. What he did not say was that denial of those benefits could result in suicide, which clearly is the case. Dr. Regier also did not say that evidence is not proof and therein lies the danger presented by bias among psychiatrists.

    http://davidemeadows.newsvine.com/_news/2009/07/05/2994849-the-va-uses-faulty-testing-to-deny-benefits-to-veterans

    {"commentId":8403967,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
      #4.1 - Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:20 AM EDT
      {"commentId":8404045,"authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
      pcbynature

      Also, the care by the VA is so bad that it has led to suicides:

      The situation with veterans being denied benefits is one reason the suicide rate is so high. As heatless as this sounds, the reality is that veterans may have money in VA accounts and they are denied the use of that maney and money from their monthly compensation checks. This creates a financial strain on the veteran and reduces the veteran's sense of self to the point that the thought of iiving as a ward of the State without power over his own life becomes intolerable and suicide results. Convincing a VA bureaucrat that he/she is the cause of suicide is impossible, because the VA bureacracy beleives that it knows best when it coms to the distribution of benefits for vets. The vets also may self-medicate the drugs and/or alcohol to reduce the feeling of irrelevance in his life and the VA uses this fact as a reason to continue the denial of benefits to the vet. The spiral toward suicide BECAUSE OF THE VA ITSELF therefore is SYSTEMIC and self-perpetuating.

      How bad is the problem? From a case late last year:

      "SAN FRANCISCO — The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs may paint a rosy picture of improving healthcare for veterans, but the agency has systematically denied benefits to sick veterans and delayed claims so long that many of them commit suicide, a lawyer for two advocacy groups argued in federal court Monday.

      'The court faces an agency that is in denial and a healthcare system and an adjudication system that are broken down and in crisis,' said Gordon P. Erspamer, one of the plaintiffs' attorneys, in an opening statement in the class-action suit against the VA.

      The lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court on behalf of Veterans for Common Sense, based in Washington, D.C., and Veterans United for Truth, based in Santa Barbara. It does not seek damages, but wants the court to compel the department to improve the care of hundreds of thousands of veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

      The veterans' lawyers displayed new documents on the court's computer monitors. Included were two e-mails among VA officials conferring about the suicide rate of veterans. The officials said four to five suicides a day and 1,000 attempted suicides a month were occurring among people receiving care from the VA.

      One of those e-mails, by Dr. Ira R. Katz, VA deputy chief of the Patient Care Services Office for Mental Health, began with the word, "Shh!"

      The e-mails 'show how bad the situation is,' Erspamer said. 'They're keeping it a secret because they're embarrassed by it.'"

      http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/22/local/me-veterans22

      As late as last year the VA was engaged in a cover-up of how many vets are commiting suicied and the fact that they were denied benefits:

      "Earlier in the day, Senator Murray delivered a speech on the Senate floor to urge passage of the bill. In the speech, she also condemned the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for purposely withholding critical information on the rising number of veteran suicides.

      Internal e-mails, which became public in a court hearing, show that the VA has vastly downplayed the number of suicides and suicide attempts by veterans in the last several years. The e-mails from the VA's head of Mental Health, Dr. Ira Katz, show that 6,570 veterans committed suicide in 2005, a number significantly higher than the VA had publicly stated.

      Senator Murray called for Dr. Katz's resignation earlier this week. "

      http://murray.senate.gov/news.cfm?id=296782

      The VA adopted a laughable suicide prevention hotline and failed to implement programs that woulkd benefit veterans:

      "The problems persist because "VA has not implemented critical provisions, involving suicide prevention, required by its own plans, the veterans advocacy groups alleged in court papers. "As such, services to which VA acknowledges veterans are entitled are being unreasonably delayed, in some instances denied entirely because the delay leads to the death by suicide of individual veterans."

      "An injunction compelling VA to implement its own directives is both appropriate and required," the advocacy groups said in an appeal brief. "At a minimum, a remand is necessary to remedy the district court's erroneous discovery rulings and 'systemic' evidentiary standard."

      Two years ago, Veterans for Common Sense and Veterans United for Truth sued the VA, alleging some war veterans were turned away from VA hospitals after they sought care for PTSD and later committed suicide."

      http://www.opednews.com/articles/Crisis-at-the-VA-as-Benefi-by-Jason-Leopold-090605-678.html

      The leadership at the VA has shown a callous attitude toward the suicides, calling them ae inevitable as cance:

      But according to a November 2006 report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), spending for the program was substantially less than what the VA had proposed - leaving untreated tens of thousands of veterans who were at risk of suicide.

      " In June 2007, in response to a VA inspector general's report that also criticized the VA's failure to implement the MHSP, William Feeley, the VA's undersecretary for health, operations and management, issued a memo requiring VA hospitals and outpatient treatment centers to provide urgent mental health care within 24 hours and nonurgent care to veterans within 14 days.

      But Feeley, who was one of a handful of VA officials who received lucrative bonuses in 2006, admitted in a deposition last year that he never conducted any oversight to ensure his directives were being adhered to. In that deposition, Feeley said an uptick in veterans suicides and suicide attempts did not mean VA failed to provide proper care to veterans.

      'A suicide does not mean negligence on the part of a medical center director or a network director,' Feeley said. 'Suicide occurs just like cancer occurs.'

      http://www.truthout.org/060509A

      A recent study showed a relationship between vets who were given money, and not denied it, and an improvement in the vets' attitude about life. Also, the study showed that giving the vets cash, instaed of holding and spending it for the vet, did not lead to an increase in drug or alcohol problems.

      "RESULTS: Beneficiaries (N=50) did not differ from those were denied benefits (N=123) on any baseline sociodemographic or clinical characteristics. However, beneficiaries were more willing to delay gratification, as reflected in scores on a time preference measure. Three months after the initial decision, beneficiaries had significantly higher total incomes and reported a higher quality of life. They spent more on housing, food, clothing, transportation, and tobacco products but not on alcohol or illegal drugs. No differences were found between groups on standardized measures of psychiatric status or substance abuse. CONCLUSIONS: Receipt of disability payments is associated with improved subjective quality of life and is not associated with increased alcohol or drug use. "

      http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/51/12/1549

      http://davidemeadows.newsvine.com/_news/2009/06/27/2975386-veterans-denied-benefits-commit-suicide

      {"commentId":8404045,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
        #4.2 - Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:23 AM EDT
        {"commentId":8404131,"authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
        pcbynature

        I woulsd also add that the VA's computer system, which Obbama likes. is not secured. I have an investigation going now about a clerk at the VBA who accessed my (I thought) private medical records. Anyone with access to a puter terminal can invade your privacy.

        {"commentId":8404131,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
          #4.3 - Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:26 AM EDT
          {"commentId":8408959,"authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}
          Kpel

          I've always heard wildly different stories of the VA. Being that visiting a doctor or having surgery requires some of the deepest trust you can place, it typically brings up strong opinions from people. It's highly intimate, and even the slightest of mistakes can effect a person permanently. The stories from veterans going to the Milwaukee-area VA have all been of the horror variety. Had that VA not been so slow, my grandfather would likely be alive today. I can't place 75 years of a bad diet on them but still, they dragged their feet on him and many others.

          So the only rational conclusion I can come up with on healthcare in general is: needs improvement. And I will always come with that conclusion no matter how well the field of medicine improves.

          {"commentId":8408959,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"kpeltonen85"}
            #4.4 - Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:14 PM EDT
            Reply
            {"commentId":8403641,"authorDomain":"wrhesselbach"}
            wrhesselbach

            i receive health care from the VA.Although as everywhere some employees just don't get it ,but most of the people working at the VA Hosp. are very dedicated.I have major health problems but the VA takes good care of me .HIV+ since 86,hep C, Diabetes,heartattack,mental health ptsd and yet I"m alive and feeling pretty good.

            {"commentId":8403641,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"wrhesselbach"}
              Reply#5 - Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:06 AM EDT
              {"commentId":8433526,"authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
              pcbynature

              Like so many posts by MSNBC employees, I feel a bit disappointed by the lack of responses to replies, tho Jacobs is better than most.

              {"commentId":8433526,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
                Reply#6 - Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:25 AM EDT
                {"commentId":8441796,"authorDomain":"tom-carter"}
                Tom Carter

                I haven't personally used the VA system, but the many people I know who have are generally pretty satisfied. The faults I've heard about, however, are probably similar to the problems we could expect in a nationalized health care system.

                The fact is, President Obama, his progressive friends, and some Democrats would like to go to a single-payer health care system. Obama said that very directly during the campaign, although he's backed off a bit lately. He's going to stay backed-off, too, because nothing that resembles that kind of system is likely to be passed into law, even if it's hidden beneath a "public option."

                Two reasons are normally given for the need for health care reform -- the large number of people who don't have health insurance and high (and rapidly growing) costs.

                First, the uninsured: The number of 47 or so million uninsured people is significantly misleading. It's cast in language that implies that this huge number of people don't have access to health care, which isn't true. It's also mostly incorrect. The breakdown of the numbers is readily available; here's just one source.

                Second, the high and growing cost: Health care does, in fact, cost too much in America. There are several things that could be done to reduce costs, given the political will to do so: serious tort reform, control of Medicare and Medicaid fraud, closer scrutiny of entitlement to government-funded programs, refusal to provide non-emergency government-funded medical care to illegal aliens (except for those incarcerated), and a serious approach to bidding-down drug costs through existing government-funded programs (Medicare, Medicaid, VA).

                One point that keeps coming up in these discussions is the amount of money doctors make. I don't have a problem with that, provided that doctors, like anyone else, make their money ethically and legally. I don't think we should worry until they're as well-paid as athletes, actors, trial lawyers, talk-show hosts, American Idol judges, fat documentary film makers, former presidents and vice presidents (some of them), investment bankers, hedge-fund managers, CEOs of large corporations...the list could be much longer. Oprah alone probably makes enough every year to equal what 100 or more average doctors make.

                I'm not naive about health care in America; our system is not without warts. Among industrialized countries, our life expectancy at birth and infant mortality rates don't compare so well, to name just two areas. But given the size and complexity of our society, and the sectors in which negative outcomes are most often found, I'm not sure much can be done to significantly improve things, other than cost-cutting measures like those mentioned above.

                {"commentId":8441796,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"tom-carter"}
                  Reply#7 - Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:56 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":8448708,"authorDomain":"bernie-valentine"}
                  Bernie Valentine

                  My own experience with VA service was not so good......but, the more important issue is whether or not government run programs (in general) are good.

                  i.e. VA, Medicare, Medicaid, Tenncare, US Post Office.......and the list goes on!

                  I think not.....if you look at these programs, they are all inundated with waste and in-efficiency as is typical with most government run programs. Any unionized, tenured, institution will have this as an inherent handicap. When motives & incentives are lacking these are the results.

                  Back to the Healthcare issue. It was recently described that the main issue revolves around the objectives of Health Care reform:

                  Self-interest may partially explain people's conceptions of which goal is more important. Those without health insurance believe expanding coverage to nearly all Americans is the more important goal, while those who have insurance believe controlling costs is more imperative.

                  I believe that if controlling costs were accomplished FIRST, then the rest could afford THEIR OWN Health Insurance!!!

                  I am a firm believer that if.....Each individual were left to purchase their own CUSTOM policy, with cost controls in place, then the issue would be solved. The FREE market place will let everyone purchase the BEST plan for them. No employer-subsidized plans, either....if an employer wants to offer health coverage....let them contribute that cost onto employee wages. "What is good for one employee, may not be good for the other".....I would rather make my own decisions. i.e. if I don't want pregnancy coverage, or drug abuse coverage, or long-term care, etc, etc,.....then let me pick the plan I can afford.

                  Just like the many other types of insurance options we have. I don't need government picking or supplying my auto insurance....and similar items.!!

                  P.S. Hi Jack!! (Your old Fords NJ buddy)

                  {"commentId":8448708,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"bernie-valentine"}
                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#8 - Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:11 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":8448847,"authorDomain":"EllieP"}
                  EllieP

                  One thing the VA does quite well is records maintenance/sharing. One thing they do poorly is adapt their bureaucracy to real life situations. Example: approving new nursing homes is pretty much a case-by-case effort resulting in families being inconvenienced by having to have their loved ones in facilities far from home.

                  That has been my own family's challenge for the last six months. Fortunately, VA finally saw the light and have moved my (30-yr-service, agent orange vet) father back to his home town. Makes things easier on my (cancer-patient) mother.

                  {"commentId":8448847,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"EllieP"}
                  • 3 votes
                  #8.1 - Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:22 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":8460347,"authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
                  pcbynature

                  Hey, Bernie

                  My Mom once used Tenncare before the Bule Dog in the Governor's mansion kicked her off...

                  {"commentId":8460347,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
                    #8.2 - Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:38 AM EDT
                    Reply
                    {"commentId":8449513,"authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}
                    WILDWONDERFUL

                    Get ready health care is going to be rationed. Does anybody believe social security is a well run program ?

                    {"commentId":8449513,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}
                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#9 - Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:18 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":8455931,"authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                    questforfire

                    Wild, as someone who has worked at both the VA and in private sector medicine, I can assure you the Obamacare will look like the VA, and it won't be pretty.

                    {"commentId":8455931,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                    • 3 votes
                    #9.1 - Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:28 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    {"commentId":8478045,"authorDomain":"matthew-babiarz"}
                    Lunchbox

                    Having been recently medically retired from the Army, and spending the last 10 months trying to get my claim filed with the VA, I am not at all impressed by government run health care. By an odd coincidence I will be seeing a VA doctor for the first time tomorrow so that he can decide exactly how broken I am and finally give me a rating. 10 months for a claim to be processed and finally referred to a physician? If that is what we can expect from this government run health care system, why would we assume that an even larger and more encompassing government run program would be more efficient. The sheer size and complexity of the bueracratic nightmare created by such a system means that many will fall through the cracks.

                    {"commentId":8478045,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"matthew-babiarz"}
                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#10 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:10 AM EDT
                    {"commentId":8478314,"authorDomain":"pennid"}
                    PenniD

                    If you have any problems, see your VA rep. They are great at helping us through the maze.

                    {"commentId":8478314,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"pennid"}
                      #10.1 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:37 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":8478353,"authorDomain":"bad4"}
                      USAF Vet-923294

                      I would suggest you go to the Disabled America Veterans. They offer free service in fighting for you and getting your claim. I have see many Veternas who have been turned down and the DAV stepped in and fought fr them and wo the caim.

                      {"commentId":8478353,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"bad4"}
                      • 2 votes
                      #10.2 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:41 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":8478751,"authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                      questforfire

                      Lunchbox, sounds like you were one of the "lucky ones".

                      {"commentId":8478751,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                      • 2 votes
                      #10.3 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:27 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":8478758,"authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                      questforfire

                      The question is, PenniD, why should that be necessary? Do you think the elderly would be able to figure that out under Obamacare? They can't even figure out the simplified private system that I work in.

                      {"commentId":8478758,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                      • 2 votes
                      #10.4 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:28 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":8478808,"authorDomain":"pennid"}
                      PenniD

                      questforfire, it shouldn't be necessary, but the reality is the VA is a huge, complicated system that is easy to get lost in. At least the VA acknowledges this and has reps available. We also have many veteran's groups to help.

                      The elderly will needs reps and groups, too. It's the only way to survive in an imperfect world.

                      {"commentId":8478808,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"pennid"}
                        #10.5 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:34 AM EDT
                        {"commentId":8478822,"authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                        questforfire

                        you may be right; it just seems that we shouldn't make it worse than it is.

                        {"commentId":8478822,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                        • 3 votes
                        #10.6 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:36 AM EDT
                        {"commentId":8478854,"authorDomain":"pennid"}
                        PenniD

                        I just read on a newer seed that it doesn't look like this health care thing is going through. If it does, it will be so watered down it will be useless any way. I don't know the answers, but it doesn't seem like the powers in D.C. know either. That scares me.

                        {"commentId":8478854,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"pennid"}
                          #10.7 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:40 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":8479026,"authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                          questforfire

                          If you care to read about my ideas as a physician for a private alternative, I'd be happy to supply the link.

                          {"commentId":8479026,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                          • 2 votes
                          #10.8 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:02 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":8479081,"authorDomain":"pennid"}
                          PenniD

                          That would be very kind of you. I like to read as much as I can on a subject. I am always willing to change my mind/opinions. That is why I read on Newsvine, to see other opinions and insights. Any information that you have would be highly appreciated, and read. Thanks in advance and thanks for your offer.

                          {"commentId":8479081,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"pennid"}
                            #10.9 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:09 AM EDT
                            {"commentId":8479455,"authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                            questforfire

                            Thankyou, PenniD, for your open-mindedness:

                            http://questforfire.newsvine.com/_news/2009/07/09/3012034-what-riles-people-about-health-care-and-what-can-be-done

                            have a good one.

                            {"commentId":8479455,"threadId":"633657","contentId":"3054210","authorDomain":"questforfire"}
                            • 3 votes
                            #10.10 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:04 AM EDT
                            Reply
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