{"contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

Facts and Nonsense in Afghanistan

There is an ancient axiom that stresses the wisdom of articulating the objective before committing the resources, and more recently Lewis Carroll succinctly captured the notion when he wrote, "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there."

President Obama is trying hard to hew to this advice. Maybe too hard.

At least in theory, an objective is unambiguous, and achievement of it can be measured. If it were not so, it could not be called an objective. In World War II, we decided on the uncondictional surrender of the Axis and prevailed at least partially because it was easy for us and our allies to understand what it meant. In Vietnam, we fought but failed, and one of the reasons was that we found it difficult to articulate the measurable end state of the conflict. It was not enough to say, tautologically, that we win and the communists will lose, because that does not inform the route to victory, especially in an unconventional war.

Candidate Obama committed to fighting the Taliban, and President Obama ordered our troop strength in Afghanistan to rise to about 70,000, but the administration still seems to be in a quandary about what it is really trying to accomplish there. Not in general terms, of course: we know that we want to eliminate the Taliban and al Qaeda, empower the government in Kabul, strengthen tribal control of the provinces, bring economic development to the impoverished Afghans and a host of other important goals. But the White House and the Pentagon recognize that most of these things are relative and subjective, and they want to be able to measure success.

Old ways of measurement---such as the number of enemy killed or the ratio of friendly to enemy casualties---have proven to be illusory or irrelevant in recent wars, and hundreds of experts and bureaucrats are working hard to create a universe of objective reality, a list of criteria that bureaucrats have unfortunately coined "metrics." Our civil servants are likely to be frustrated in this endeavor, and they will ultimately establish criteria that seem interesting but reflect a distorted, meaningless or incomprehensible picture of what's happening in Afghanistan.

No matter how difficult, measuring success is deemed laudable principally because data may tell us important things like how we're doing, what to do next, which tasks need more resources and which ones fewer. It is unfortunate, however, that the principal, stated reason for this exercise is that the administration fears the American electorate, smart enough to recognize that we've been in Afghanistan for seven years already, doesn't have a taste for much more---without being shown that we're making objective progress. And so our government will structure a large menu of metrics, many of which may be intellectually interesting but largely irrelevant to achieving the overarching goal of a stable, prosperous and Taliban-free Afghanistan.

In an ideal world, our government would not have to go through the charade of manufacturing a method to deliver a thin representation of progress to the public and to lawmakers, for we would all be sufficiently informed to understand the importance of prevailing in Afghanistan and that it will take decades to be successful. But the world is frustratingly imperfect, and our method of governing is barely capable of satisfying our national security requirements in the best of circumstances, especially when the voters want results quickly and with the sacrifice of others rather than themselves.

Whether we do well or poorly in Afghanistan will have little relationship to the artifices that the government is manufacturing but instead will be the result of good generalship and the glorious service of the few citizens who have risen to defend us all.

{"contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
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{"commentId":8698612,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}
[T]he administration still seems to be in a quandary about what it is really trying to accomplish there. Not in general terms, of course: we know that we want to eliminate the Taliban and al Qaeda, empower the government in Kabul, strengthen tribal control of the provinces, bring economic development to the impoverished Afghans and a host of other important goals.

Most if not all of these objectives can be accomplished without endangering our troops.

{"commentId":8698612,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:11 PM EDT
{"commentId":8704195,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

It's certainly true that miltary action alone will not accomplish any of these goals, but they also can't be achieved without local security, and that, alas, requires military force.

{"commentId":8704195,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 8:51 AM EDT
{"commentId":8707662,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

In your opinion, what is the primary reason for why we are there?

{"commentId":8707662,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 12:47 PM EDT
{"commentId":8738334,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

If you asked that question of a member of the Executive Branch---any department will do---the answer you will get is this: to eliminate the Taliban. But it isn't that simple, and there is a host of other reasons, some closely related and others less so. Chief among the former is the stability of South and Southwest Asia, at risk because of Muslim revolutionaries in the region generally, not just in Afghanistan. All other goals, including economic development, flow from local political stability, and the Taliban is inimical to it.

{"commentId":8738334,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:34 PM EDT
{"commentId":8741200,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

RE: Terms of Repatriation

Your reply is succinct and clarifies a great deal.

Defeating the Taliban is too tenuous an objective and thus unrealistic.

I recommend negotiating terms of repatriation.

Severing ties with (renouncing) Al-Qaeda is a given. The process of determining the other terms might benefit from the involvement of concerned regional parties, including Pakistan and Iran.

Your lesser objectives could be reformulated as incentives for participation in a final agreement.

The Taliban will not peacefully return to Afghanistan, only to be met by the point of a gun.

{"commentId":8741200,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:32 PM EDT
{"commentId":9001648,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}

Forgive my interjection, but haven't the bulk of Taliban forces already "severed ties with (or renounced) al-Qaeda"?

{"commentId":9001648,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
  • 1 vote
#1.5 - Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:32 PM EDT
{"commentId":9002017,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}

Am I mistaken, or was there a time when Mullah Omar offered bin Laden to President Clinton for the price of diplomatic recognition of the Taliban regime by the United States? An offer, naturally, refused?

{"commentId":9002017,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
  • 1 vote
#1.6 - Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:13 PM EDT
{"commentId":9002650,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

Good questions, Nasty Liberal. I am not in the intelligence loop, but perhaps the colonel can answer.

{"commentId":9002650,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
  • 2 votes
#1.7 - Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:18 PM EDT
{"commentId":9003173,"authorDomain":"amberneve"}

Fundamentalism is connected to the landscape of Afghanistan. It is the outcome of a survival mentality where the majority of the people subsist on the basics derived from agrarian occupations. The country cannot undergo the social evolution of the West short of decades of time and hundreds of billions in financial assistance. Is this an agenda the electorate in the West are willing to support?

Fundamentalism can be moderated, but it takes a long time to change.

{"commentId":9003173,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"amberneve"}
  • 2 votes
#1.8 - Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:15 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":8704786,"authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}

Funding for the Taliban coukld end tomorrow if the opium crops there were used for medical morphine, which is in short supply:

"The International Council on Security and Development (ICOS), a policy think-tank with offices in London and Kabul, has proposed abandoning the futile eradication efforts in Afghanistan and instead licensing farmers to legally grow poppies for the production of medical morphine. This so-called “Poppy for Medicine” program is not as crazy as it may sound. Similar programs have already proven successful in Turkey and India, both of which were able to bring the illegal production of opium in their countries under control by licensing, regulating, and taxing poppy cultivation. And there is every reason to believe that the program could work even in a fractured country like Afghanistan. This is because the entire production process—from poppies to pills—would occur inside the village under strict control of village authorities, which, in Afghanistan, often trump the authority of the federal government. Licensed farmers would legally plant and cultivate poppy seeds. Factories built in the villages would transform the poppies into morphine tablets. The tablets would then be shipped off to Kabul, where they would be exported to the rest of the world. These rural village communities would experience significant economic development, and tax revenues would stream into Kabul. (The Taliban, which taxes poppy cultivation under their control at 10 percent, made $300 million dollars last year.)

The global demand for poppy-based medicine is as great as it is for oil. According to the International Narcotics Control Board, 80 percent of the world’s population currently faces a shortage of morphine; morphine prices have skyrocketed as a result. The ICOS estimates that Afghanistan could supply this market with all the morphine it needs, and at a price at least 55 percent lower than the current market average."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-12-19/how-opium-can-save-afghanistan/

{"commentId":8704786,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
    Reply#2 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 9:46 AM EDT
    {"commentId":8708221,"authorDomain":"bernie-valentine"}

    Since our "War on Terror" (oops, don't believe we're supposed to use that term any more??) is such an "elusive" one, the objectives always seem to gravitate into trying to change cultures thru inputs of $$$, troops, etc...... no matter where we go.

    It didn't work in Vietnam..... it certainly didn't do it in Iraq.....where ethnic disputes still abound between Sunnis, Kurds, & Shiites (even though a fragile coalition exists for now).

    In Afghanistan, Afghans still want to be Afghans (some cultures just don't want to mirror the west) and even with the huge, past Russian investment of building factories, schools and with thousands of advisors.....really, got them nowhere except OUT! I think we're just heading down the same path.

    I agree that whatever objective we have in being there now....are ambiguous at best!?

    We have issues all over....Pakistan, Malaysia, Somalia, Israel/Palestine, Iran, North Korea....on and on........

    not to mention our own homefront....and global economic issues.

    {"commentId":8708221,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"bernie-valentine"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#3 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 1:21 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8738624,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

    As we have learned, Iraq has, for most of its history, has been politically cohesive and centrally administered, while Afghanistan has never been so. Afghanistan is not Iraq and will continue to be, a military, economic and political challenge; we should be prepared to spend a long time there.

    {"commentId":8738624,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
    • 2 votes
    #3.1 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8810048,"authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}

    Jacobs

    "As we have learned, Iraq has, for most of its history, has been politically cohesive and centrally administered, while Afghanistan has never been so. Afghanistan is not Iraq and will continue to be, a military, economic and political challenge; we should be prepared to spend a long time there."

    OK. now I know you are a nut...

    {"commentId":8810048,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
      #3.2 - Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:22 AM EDT
      {"commentId":9001740,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}

      Centrally administered from Istanbul, it's true... but yes, cohered and ruled by a centralised government nonetheless. Unlike the Hindu Kush. Me? I had no problem with Soviets regulating the place.

      {"commentId":9001740,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
      • 1 vote
      #3.3 - Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:43 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":8710557,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

      Colonel Jack:

      And so our government will structure a large menu of metrics, many of which may be intellectually interesting but largely irrelevant to achieving the overarching goal of a stable, prosperous and Taliban-free Afghanistan.

      I don't have a problem with that. We are citizens of a Republic and the ultimate arbiter of policy is the electorate. If the voters decide that the costs of achieving "a stable, prosperous and Taliban-free Afghanistan" are not offset by the benefits, then it's their call. It's not the Pentagon's, it not McChrystal's, it's not even Obama's once he has to face the voters.

      If the voters are wrong, then they're wrong. It's still their call.

      {"commentId":8710557,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
      • 2 votes
      Reply#4 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 3:43 PM EDT
      {"commentId":8738425,"authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}

      Oh, it's certainly the voters' call, and that's a very good thing indeed, especially when one considers the alternative. But neither the voters nor perople in authority should be under any illusions about the limited power, both descriptive and proscriptive, of arbitrary measurements. Like the results of polls, the result will be a function of the question you ask.

      {"commentId":8738425,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"jackjacobs"}
      • 2 votes
      #4.1 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:38 PM EDT
      {"commentId":8739175,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

      Col. Jack:

      Speaking of polls, did you see the latest on Afghanistan?

      {"commentId":8739175,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
      • 2 votes
      #4.2 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:09 PM EDT
      {"commentId":9001792,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}

      And the Europeans try and tell us we haven't adopted the metric system; the nerve, I tells ya's!

      {"commentId":9001792,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
      • 1 vote
      #4.3 - Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:49 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":8741937,"authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}

      Oh, it's certainly the voters' call, and that's a very good thing indeed, especially when one considers the alternative. But neither the voters nor perople in authority should be under any illusions about the limited power, both descriptive and proscriptive, of arbitrary measurements. Like the results of polls, the result will be a function of the question you ask.

      There ya go, just knock the polls: that will solve everything, lol.

      {"commentId":8741937,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"davidemeadows"}
        Reply#5 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:56 PM EDT
        {"commentId":8809955,"authorDomain":"tom-carter"}

        Jack, the more I look at what's happening in Afghanistan, including the difficulty in stating our objectives and designing odd ways to measure success, the more I'm convinced that we're going to get ourselves firmly stuck to a tarbaby that will be very difficult to get away from. We'll have to be there a very long time, with a large number of troops, and the chances of success by any reasonable standard are slim.

        I think the best solution is to end military operations now and pull our troops out. We can then continue supporting the Kabul government as much as we can politically and materially. We should actively engage in aid operations, to the extent aid is wanted and accepted by the recipients. We should also promote sound ideas like the one pcbynature discussed regarding poppy production and legal opium trading.

        If the Kabul government cannot sustain itself with this kind of international support, led by the U.S., then it should be clear that it isn't survivable in any case. No amount of American soldiers' blood, no matter how many years we shed it, is going to matter. That sacrifice will just delay the inevitable outcome, and I don't think it's worth the price.

        Let's measure this enterprise against the doctrine enunciated by (if not invented by) Colin Powell -- what we're embarked on in Afghanistan fails virtually every one of the eight essential tests. We can bring our troops home now, or we can do it in 10 years. The long-term outcome in either case is likely to be the same.

        {"commentId":8809955,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"tom-carter"}
          Reply#6 - Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:39 AM EDT
          {"commentId":8853560,"authorDomain":"davepat2002"}

          The objectives we are probably fighting for are the elimination of terrorist tactics in the governing of people, and the replacement of those tactics with the more stable and less lethal alternative that is democracy. If you had to sum the whole thing up in a few words, those would probably be as close to an explanation as any.

          We are dealing with Afghanistan because the Taliban was in control there and was providing a safe haven for terrorists and we are still there because we don't want that to happen again, but that fails to deal with the real objective, which is to eliminate the stateless terrorist from promoting their personal, political agenda through the use of terror.

          If we left an unstable Afghanistan, as we did after the Russians left, we would see one of two outcomes. Either the Taliban would retake the country and we would be right back where we were before, or we would see some local strongman or combination of strongmen take over and milk the poppy trade just like has happened for centuries in that country.

          It is unfortunate that the only real way to eliminate terrorism is to do it globally. That means to stabilize the world so that it is in everybody's economic and social interest to maintain political and economic stability throughout the world.

          Can that be accomplished? Not in Afghanistan alone. If we were to find some way to stabilize Afghanistan, and I don't know that such a thing can be accomplished, then we would simply see terrorist jump up in another spot where they can receive support or avoid the pressure of that a stable government can provide. (See Somalia for a good working example)

          We are looking regionally for a global solution. Without international agreement and support, we won't find an answer.

          {"commentId":8853560,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"davepat2002"}
            Reply#7 - Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:16 AM EDT
            {"commentId":9001843,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}

            "International agreement and support"? For an answer?

            I dunno', sounds like next thing you'll be saying the Russians might eventually want some real help against Islamist Extremism.

            How hot is it in Chechnya these days? Or Moscow for that matter? Help us with Iran, won't you please?

            {"commentId":9001843,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
            • 1 vote
            #7.1 - Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:55 PM EDT
            {"commentId":9001918,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}

            "Somalia a working example"! Good one... point taken. I've seen small indications the Administration is alive to the situation there and taking proactive measures accordingly. I hope that's right. Witness dead pirates.

            {"commentId":9001918,"threadId":"645792","contentId":"3128652","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
              #7.2 - Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:03 PM EDT
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